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hockeyfan
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[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 6:4-6[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]hEBREWS 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Romans 11:13-23[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]hEBREWS 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Romans 11:13-23[/BIBLEDRB]
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hockeyfan
Guest
We have to mold our argument to the audience. That means we have to play their game but not by their rules. Make them look into depth abut the scriptures they use and read all surrounding verses. The fact is that the Bible is a Catholic set of documents. We have nothing to fear out of the Bible as long as we make sure all verses are read in the context of their surrounding verses.
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Contarini
Guest
Yes, that was my point. The OP seems to be trying to build a counter-list.
Granted, a counter-list can make the point that prooftexting gets us nowhere and that it all depends on where you start.
But then the Baptists will say, “Ah, but you’re taking the passages out of context.”
I know. They’ve done it to me.
All I’m saying is that you need to make it clear from the start that you don’t accept the assumptions they’re working from.
Edwin
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PJM
Guest
OSAS bible verses which disprove it
Matt. 19:17
Matt.15:15-19
Heb. 10:26-27 & 3: 12-13
Rev. 20:11-12; & 2:23
Col. 9:21-22
1st. John 1:8-10
John 20:19-23
1 Peter 1:17
Rom. 2:13
John 3:5; & 14:15 & 14:21-23
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hockeyfan
Guest
I think a counter list is a good start. You are right, though, they will say that.
When I was and just Confirmed, I started hanging around a group of serious Southern Baptists who were always throwing verses in my face. They were good people but sometimes that was difficult. I started by learning the counter readings but it eventually caused me to learn my Bible and the context in it. I am working on my application to enter the seminary for the fall of 14 and I was doing my autobiography for my application recently. That experience caused me to grow in my knowledge and faith. They kicked my but for a while but by the end, I started challenging their faith. They started finding it hard to find answers to my Bible quotes. Now, that was over a decade ago and now I realize that there is way more to evangelizing then just winning the debate but it is a start.
A list like that can be used, well. It needs to be followed with a good understanding of the surrounding passages and eventually with the context.
One last piece of advice for the person who wrote the op. It isn’t easy but it is important to use these with a degree of respect, humility and mercy. Don’t try to give them a Bible thumping. It will only make them defensive and they will either attack harder or leave.
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Origen52
Guest
If the reality were OSAS, why would Jesus have taught us to pray, “…forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive…”? Why would the “saved” need to ask for forgiveness on a daily basis? I’m very interested in hearing how those who believe in “once saved” explain the OUR FATHER, I assume it’s also their prayer. Since evangelicals make up less than 4% of the population in Toronto, I have never had the type of harassment many of you have to endure. Even our Jehovah’s Witnesses, no longer go door to door, or stand on street corners. So I need to rely on your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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Adamski
Guest
I am finding no matter what you say osas is a deflection to make your self believe everything is ok even when it isn’t.
Osas is a tool used to make yourself “know” that your deceased loved ones are in heaven and you are going to heaven. I find the majority of osas people come from a highly dis functional background.
I have noticed osas is a reaction to having no confession. Baptists are getting really involved in a new movement called celebrate recovery. When I was going to an evangelical church I got involved in it.
Celebrate recovery is where you sit in a group and tell everyone your sins and they do also. The big problem is they don’t stay private
Osas is a tool used to make yourself “know” that your deceased loved ones are in heaven and you are going to heaven. I find the majority of osas people come from a highly dis functional background.
I have noticed osas is a reaction to having no confession. Baptists are getting really involved in a new movement called celebrate recovery. When I was going to an evangelical church I got involved in it.
Celebrate recovery is where you sit in a group and tell everyone your sins and they do also. The big problem is they don’t stay private
Of the bolded, is this your anecdotal experience, or do you have a source for this?
Jon
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Adamski
Guest
Well. The highest divorce rate among people are evangelicals with atheist being the second highest. And Catholics always being near the lowest.
My personal experience when I was in evangelical churches for 7 years
My wife’s family.
I have a couple friends who’s fathers or grandfathers where or are in the Italian mafia and grew up in a dis functional home but where confirmed Catholics that now are evangelicals
My wife’s friends families
My neighbor(s)
And the opposite being true of most catholic; and Lutheran families I know
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benjohnson
Guest
The Lutheran and Catholic divorce rate is 21% - that’s much lower that some other groups of people.
However, In my opinion we can’t use that statistic to boast - the church is a hospital for sinners and we should welcome those that need to hear the Law and Gospel, and respond by leading better lives in Christ.
Thanks,
Jon
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