One Mediator

[ecstasyofavila]

So, I’ve been looking at the One Mediator counterargument against prayers to saints, and I don’t really know what to think. They say that praying to a saint is adding a Mediator between God (Jesus) and man, and is not sanctioned in Scripture. I kind of have to agree, there are no outright(clear) references I can find. Anyone help me refute this?

Pax Christi

 

[adf417]

So, I’ve been looking at the One Mediator counterargument against prayers to saints, and I don’t really know what to think. They say that praying to a saint is adding a Mediator between God (Jesus) and man, and is not sanctioned in Scripture. I kind of have to agree, there are no outright(clear) references I can find. Anyone help me refute this?

Pax Christi

I think intercessor might be a better term. If i ask you to pray for me are you a mediator or an intercessor?

Peace!!!

 

[truetofaith]

It always bothered me, praying to the Blessed Mother, because the Bible says 1 Tim 2:5 "there is one mediator between God & men, the Man, Christ, Jesus.

But…at the Wedding at Cana, they asked Mary about the wine and she asked Jesus.
Can that be going to Jesus through Mary?

 

[The_Reginator]

It always bothered me, praying to the Blessed Mother, because the Bible says 1 Tim 2:5 "there is one mediator between God & men, the Man, Christ, Jesus.

But…at the Wedding at Cana, they asked Mary about the wine and she asked Jesus.
Can that be going to Jesus through Mary?

Why can’t we be mediators between Jesus and each other? As Catholics we believe in The Communion of the Saints. We pray with them to Our Lord. Even in Revelations the saints are lifting up prayers and incense to God.

 

[Cathoholic]

ecstasyofavila.

The refutation is right in the verse you are alluding to. 1st Timothy 2:5.

The “one” mediator in 1st Timothy 2:5 is “heis”.

Heis allows secondary mediation along with THE one mediator.

St. Paul COULD have used the more exclusive “monos” if God did not desire prayerful mediation by Christians. But St. Paul DIDN’T use the word “monos”.

There is “heis” mediator between God and man. Jesus Christ.

People IN CHRIST, that is Christians in a state of grace, CAN and are called to mediate IN CHRIST.

Hope that helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

PS To interpret 1st Timothy 2:5 in a monos way would also butcher the context of the surrounding verses.

If you want more details, see this post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13393976&postcount=42

 

[Don_Ruggero]

So, I’ve been looking at the One Mediator counterargument against prayers to saints, and I don’t really know what to think. They say that praying to a saint is adding a Mediator between God (Jesus) and man, and is not sanctioned in Scripture. I kind of have to agree, there are no outright(clear) references I can find. Anyone help me refute this?

Pax Christi

This issue, in its theological explanation, is comparable to the role of Mary in the lives of the faithful. The college of bishops, gathered in ecumenical council, well explain the matter in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church – Lumen Gentium. They declared.

1. /…/ Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. **This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source**.

The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer.

Thus also, theologically, the intercessory intervention of the Saints is not at all in competition with Christ’s munus as Mediator but rather rests upon it and derives its efficacity from it.

The paradigm of the priesthood of Christ and its varied participation by the clergy and the laity, each in their distinct and proper way, provides an excellent parallel to the mediatorship of Christ and how others participate in it, by the will of God.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

Yes, Christ is the only mediator between God and man, but that speaks of the atonement he made for us and how he reconciles us to God by this atonement. Jesus died for our sins–not Mary or any of the Saints. Jesus was God incarnate–not Mary or any of the Saints. In the Book of Revelation, Jesus was the only one found worthy in all of creation to open the scrolls. He is the only one who could have made atonement for us.

This mediation is not the same as prayer, however. When we pray for each other or when we ask others to pray for us–including Mary and the Saints–we are only beseeching God on others’ behalf. We all have had to rely on the One Mediator between God and Man–our Lord Jesus Christ. He still is the only mediator between God and man in that only through Jesus do we receive forgiveness for our sins. Mary and the saints do not do this–only Jesus.

 

[seagal]

Yes, Christ is the only mediator between God and man, but that speaks of the atonement he made for us and how he reconciles us to God by this atonement. Jesus died for our sins–not Mary or any of the Saints. Jesus was God incarnate–not Mary or any of the Saints. In the Book of Revelation, Jesus was the only one found worthy in all of creation to open the scrolls. He is the only one who could have made atonement for us.

This mediation is not the same as prayer, however. When we pray for each other or when we ask others to pray for us–including Mary and the Saints–we are only beseeching God on others’ behalf. We all have had to rely on the One Mediator between God and Man–our Lord Jesus Christ. He still is the only mediator between God and man in that only through Jesus do we receive forgiveness for our sins. Mary and the saints do not do this–only Jesus.

Exactly what I was thinking, you wrote it before I had a chance

 

[Dorothy]

Why can’t we be mediators between Jesus and each other? As Catholics we believe in The Communion of the Saints. We pray with them to Our Lord. Even in Revelations the saints are lifting up prayers and incense to God.

Yes! It is the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that made our Blessed Mother and the saints holy! Of course, they freely cooperated with the Lord to grow in that grace. We are family! And our Blessed Mother is a great gift from our Lord, given to us at the foot of the cross!

 

[Dorothy]

This issue, in its theological explanation, is comparable to the role of Mary in the lives of the faithful. The college of bishops, gathered in ecumenical council, well explain the matter in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church – Lumen Gentium. They declared.

Thus also, theologically, the intercessory intervention of the Saints is not at all in competition with Christ’s munus as Mediator but rather rests upon it and derives its efficacity from it.

The paradigm of the priesthood of Christ and its varied participation by the clergy and the laity, each in their distinct and proper way, provides an excellent parallel to the mediatorship of Christ and how others participate in it, by the will of God.

Thank you Father for your post.

The quote left out can be seen in message #6. (from Vatican II)

 

[steve_b]

So, I’ve been looking at the One Mediator counterargument against prayers to saints, and I don’t really know what to think. They say that praying to a saint is adding a Mediator between God (Jesus) and man, and is not sanctioned in Scripture. I kind of have to agree, there are no outright(clear) references I can find. Anyone help me refute this?

Pax Christi

Pray = ask

Don’t we ask others to pray for us or our intentions? Yes

“*pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” * Jas 5:16 ]

Anyone in heaven is by definition, righteous. That’s why we ask saints in heaven to pray for us, because their prayers have great power

 

[truetofaith]

Pray = ask

Don’t we ask others to pray for us or our intentions? Yes

“*pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” * Jas 5:16 ]

Anyone in heaven is by definition, righteous. That’s why we ask saints in heaven to pray for us, because their prayers have great power

People pray to their mothers, fathers or other relatives who have died. But suppose they are not in Heaven or Purgatory???

 

[steve_b]

People pray to their mothers, fathers or other relatives who have died. But suppose they are not in Heaven or Purgatory???

that’s why I said we ask saints to pray for us. We know they are in heaven

 

[twf]

As Father points out earlier in the thread, the mediation of Our Lady and the saints is participation in the Lord’s ministry as Mediator between God and man. This is also true of priests, who participate in Christ’s role, acting as mediators on earth between God and men (especially in the sacrament of reconciliation). All of us are called to this same role, to one degree or another… do you pray for your family and friends? Are you not then mediating between them and God? Like the saints in heaven, you, by virtue of your baptism in which you “put on Christ” (Gal. 3:27), are called to participate in the ministry of Christ and intercede for others.
The Lord doesn’t need the saints nor us…but He chooses to work with and through His servants. The Lord Jesus could have appeared to have living human directly and preached the Gospel Himself…yet He chose to send us out…to be mediators of a sort.

In terms of the intercession of the saints in Scripture, take a look at Revelation chapters 5 and 8. You will see descriptions of both “the elders” (saints in heaven) and an angel interceding for those on earth.