One of many Protestant fallasies!

[martino]

There are many myths and fallasies promoted by a great number of Protestants, but I just want to address one of them. I have heard it alledged that many Catholics believe that confession is a way for them to sin all they want during the week and then start fresh again, over and over. This statement is totally absurd but for some reason it continues to be repeated by many educated and well meaning Protestants.

First of all the confessional is a tool used to fight against sin, not a tool to help commit sin, this is obvious but fails to register with some folks. The idea that someone would use the confessional as a tool so that they can continue sinning is more than rediculous.

Secondly, the people standing in line for confession are not the ones that are playing fast and loose with their salvation. The folks that do that would not be found within 1,000 feet of a confessional.

Lastly and most importantly, how is being obligated to wait in line and tell all your most personal sins (number and kind) to another person somehow easier than not having to do anything at all to receive forgiveness. The fact that we are obligated to tell our sins outloud is a deterrent if anything. How can someone that says this kind of confession is not even necessary, tell us that we make it too easy to sin?

The whole this is ludicrous to me!

 

[hawkeye]

martino:

There are many myths and fallasies promoted by a great number of Protestants, but I just want to address one of them. I have heard it alledged that many Catholics believe that confession is a way for them to sin all they want during the week and then start fresh again, over and over. This statement is totally absurd but for some reason it continues to be repeated by many educated and well meaning Protestants.

First of all the confessional is a tool used to fight against sin, not a tool to help commit sin, this is obvious but fails to register with some folks. The idea that someone would use the confessional as a tool so that they can continue sinning is more than rediculous.

Secondly, the people standing in line for confession are not the ones that are playing fast and loose with their salvation. The folks that do that would not be found within 1,000 feet of a confessional.

Lastly and most importantly, how is being obligated to wait in line and tell all your most personal sins (number and kind) to another person somehow easier than not having to do anything at all to receive forgiveness. The fact that we are obligated to tell our sins outloud is a deterrent if anything. How can someone that says this kind of confession is not even necessary, tell us that we make it too easy to sin?

The whole this is ludicrous to me!

And they say you only have to believe in the Name of Jesus to be saved, satan believes in Him, is he saved ?

 

[Spider-man]

hawkeye:

And they say you only have to believe in the Name of Jesus to be saved, satan believes in Him, is he saved ?

Which is why faith is more than just believing. Faith is trusting. And faith is all you need to be saved. I think it’s safe to say that Satan doesn’t trust in Christ.

 

[BrianDay]

Well, if a protestant can “confess” directly to God, why can’t they do the same thing over and over? It is the same argument.

 

[PhilVaz]

<< This statement is totally absurd but for some reason it continues to be repeated by many educated and well meaning Protestants. >>

Spell fallacies correctly like this.

As far as I know, Luther and Calvin both had no problem with confession to ministers as such, they had a different “sacramental” understanding (especially Calvin), but in principle they thought confession of sins privately was a good thing. From Calvin’s Institutes 3.4.12

Section 12. Private confession of two kinds. I. On our own account. II. On account of our neighbor. Use of the former. Great assistance to be obtained from faithful ministers of the Church. Mode of procedure. Caution to be used.

Two other forms of private confession are approved by Scripture. The one is made on our own account, and to it reference is made in the passage in James, “Confess your sins one to another,” (Jas 5: 16); for the meaning is, that by disclosing our infirmities to each other, we are to obtain the aid of mutual counsel and consolation.

The other is to be made for the sake of our neighbor, to appease and reconcile him if by our fault he has been in any respect injured. In the former, although James, by not specifying any particular individual into whose bosom we are to disburden our feelings, leaves us the free choice of confessing to any member of the church who may seem fittest; yet as for the most part pastors are to be supposed better qualified than others, our choice ought chiefly to fall upon them.

And the ground of preference is, that the Lord, by calling them to the ministry, points them out as the persons by whose lips we are to be taught to subdue and correct our sins, and derive consolation from the hope of pardon. For as the duty of mutual admonition and correction is committed to all Christians, but is specially enjoined on ministers, so while we ought all to console each other mutually and confirm each other in confidence in the divine mercy, we see that ministers, to assure our consciences of the forgiveness of sins, are appointed to be the witnesses and sponsors of it, so that they are themselves said to forgive sins and loose souls (Mat 16: 19; 18: 18). When you hear this attributed to them, reflect that it is for your use.

Let every believer, therefore, remember, that if in private he is so agonized and afflicted by a sense of his sins that he cannot obtain relief without the aid of others, it is his duty not to neglect the remedy which God provides for him, viz., to have recourse for relief to a private confession to his own pastor, and for consolation privately implore the assistance of him whose business it is, both in public and private, to solace the people of God with Gospel doctrine.

Calvin’s Institutes Online

Phil P

 

[martino]

BrianDay:

Well, if a protestant can “confess” directly to God, why can’t they do the same thing over and over? It is the same argument.

Not only could the same argument be made; based on that logic, it’s easier for the Protestant to receive forgiveness!

 

[Elizabeth_B]

Spider-man:

Which is why faith is more than just believing. Faith is trusting. And faith is all you need to be saved. I think it’s safe to say that Satan doesn’t trust in Christ.

My thoughts as a non-theologian:

If I have faith, I both believe and trust.

If I am faithful (filled with faith) I am committed to the covenant and I honor it through obedience. After all, faith without works is dead.

(I realize that there is much more, but my feeble brain is tired tonight.)

 

[Pax]

Spider-man:

Which is why faith is more than just believing. Faith is trusting. And faith is all you need to be saved. I think it’s safe to say that Satan doesn’t trust in Christ.

Don’t you think this is a bit over simplified? Read the book of James and believe what you read; after all it is the word of God. Satan not only lacks faith and trust in God, but he does not love God. Your statement is an obvious shot at making the faith alone argument which simply doesn’t fly in light of scripture, common sense, and simple logic.

James tells us that faith without works is dead. He also says that the relationship of faith and works is like that of the body and soul and he states in Chapter 2, verse 26 that, “for just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead”

Is it necessary to love God in order to be saved? The answer is, obviously, yes. Faith is believing, and believing is "something we do. "Trusting in God is “something we do.” Loving God is also “something we do.” These are good works. The supernatural gifts of Faith, Hope, and Love are given to us by the grace of God, but our part in believing, trusting, and loving are things that “we do.”

Lastly, I would suggest you read chapter two of the book of Revelation and note what Jesus says about the churches and how He threatens to destroy them if they do not repent. Jesus actually refers to love and faith as works. This is seen in several verses, but it is especially clear in Rev 2:19 where it says, “I know your works-your love, faith, service, and patient endurance. I know that your last works are greater than the first.”

There’s only one place in the bible that puts the words “faith” and “alone” together and that is in the second chapter of James where it is made unequivocably clear that “…a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

 

[Malachi4U]

Spider-man:

Which is why faith is more than just believing. Faith is trusting. And faith is all you need to be saved. I think it’s safe to say that Satan doesn’t trust in Christ.

Spider-man,

Can you show me ALL the verses on ‘salvation’ and in “CONTEXT” and show me where we ‘will be’ saved by ‘faith alone’? Are Jesus and God the Father left out of your ‘faith alone’ equation since we save ourselves? Does this make us like Gods as the Mormons say? Is that all we need? Is it only one part of Gods plan? Why do we have the rest of the Bible? Why did Jesus give commandments? Remember too that the verses cannot contradict other Scripture verses either. I have "F"aith which is much greater then 'f’aith alone.

If this is too difficult a project that’s OK because it is a tough set of questions I asked. I think we have another thread that may have this topic discussed so we could go to it and maybe should.

Anyway, I hope to see more Scripture from you to help support your view. I’d really like to see you discuss it with us.

 

[JCPhoenix]

They discussed this today on Relevant Radio.

A Protestant (I didn’t hear his initial question or if he gave any denimination) questioned the same thing…although it was more along the lines of “once saved, always saved.” I think the discussion ties in very nicely to our discussions about the necessity of confession.

Let’s remember, first of all, that Jesus gave the keys to heaven to Peter, and told him, “What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven…” Jesus gave him (and the other apostles) the power to forgive sins IN JESUS NAME.

On the radio today they also brought up another important issue: Can one enter the presence of God if they are not pure? No! If one believes in Jesus, are they necessarily not pure? Didn’t Jesus caution us to cut off our hands if that is what causes us to sin? “It is better to enter Heaven without your appendage rather than be thrown into Gehenna.”

How then, do we purify ourselves. (Oh…and I guess the radio question was really about purgatory–but some of the same theology and logic applies IMHO). We go to a priest who was given the power by Jesus through Peter to “bind” our sins and absolve us.

Someone help me out here…I don’t remember the Biblical verses, and I can’t find my Catechism!!!

Incidentally, I did find my Baltimore Catechism.

Jesus only breathes on people twice in the Bible…I can’t remember the first, but the second was when he said, “Recieve the Holy Spirit: whose sins you forgive shall be forgiven; whose sins you retain, they shall be retained.” Now, since this “breathing” act took place only twice, it definitely indicates a VERY special occasion. In this particular scene he granted the apostles authority to act to absolve sins. So when we go to the confessional, we are not confessing to a human being…we are confessing directly to Jesus through a designated human who has the authority to grant absolution if we fully intend to repent.

The priest may not know our hearts, but GOD does…and we WILL be held accountable for those sins for which we are not truely sorry.

'Nuff said.