only priests and monks could read the Bible in the middle ages?

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Ya’ll want to help me with my respectful response to this teacher?🙂
 
Contarini said:
The whole notion of the Middle Ages as a “dark age” followed by a glorious Renaissance is pure mythology. The reference to the darkness “lifting, but not completely” because Bunyan was still being persecuted in the 17th century is telling. Actually the 16th and 17th centuries were times of far greater persecution and religious conflict, if only because there was far more religious disagreement. Another example–the widespread fear of witchcraft and the mass killing of suspected people was a phenomenon primarily of the Renaissance and early modern era, not of the Middle Ages, yet people routinely associate it with the latter because of this same old-fashioned stereotype.

Edwin
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Agreed. in fact i read once that the term “Dark Ages” was coined during the Rennaisance to show how much more enlightened they were than those who went before them.

There were great strides in Science during the so called Dark ages. For instance the invetion of the Compass and helio-centrism are both products of this age IIRC
 
rayne89 said:
Ya’ll want to help me with my respectful response to this teacher?🙂
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I recommend you rely at least in major part with the info. provided by Edwin in post #17 in this thread. The middle ages were a time of great trouble especially in the western world, and the monks and nuns protected so much information from destruction we owe them a debt of gratitude for not having to start society all over again. It was in the Monasteries that most education continued during those times. The average person could not read! Bibles were extremely expensive and hand copied. At least one of the first printings, if not the first on the Guttenberg press was a vernacular Catholic bible. And yes the Church was very concerned about indescriminate versions of “Holy Scripture” being published knowing the confusion it would cause. After all look at what it has done for us some 600 years later with so many denominations teaching different things all using the same Bible as their source.

So take another look at what Edwin wrote above and don’t think you have to write her a dissertation, just a short note stating your concerns.

Pease
Mike
 
This was my response. (I haven’t sent it yet.)

I really appreciate your quick response to my concern. I can see this particular class is not going to work for my daughter although I know she enjoyed your class last year very much.
I do dispute your perspective on this time period. Any one who was educated during this time period was taught Latin and the most common book taught from was scripture. Scripture is quoted in correspondences, legal documents, law deeds and historical narratives among other writings of non-clergy from this time period. Those who could not read were taught scripture by monks and priests both in school and church through sermons and instruction. The only Bibles that laity were admonished from reading were those that had not yet been reviewed by the church to be free from heresy. The church was protecting the flock from false teaching.
I realize the middle ages are a point of contention between Catholics and Protestants. This particular perspective you expressed to me is not compatible with our Catholic faith. I hope you understand. I did contact xxxx to make the necessary changes to my daughter’s schedule.
Thanks so much.
God Bless
 
Lief_Erikson said:
According to historian William Durant in his book “The Age of Faith,” page 770, a Council of Toulouse in 1229 “decreed that no lay folk should possess scriptural books except the Psalter and the Hours (which were chiefly psalms); nor should they read these except in Latin, for no vernacular translation had yet been examined and guaranteed by the Church.”
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Could you please give a primary source? In particular a citation from the Council itself would be helpful.
Many people resisted this and were burned at the stake.
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Again, some primary evidence is needed for such an outlandish claim. specific details indicating that the punishment was for reading the bible as well as the ames, places, dates of the occurances, please.

Thank you.
 
Contarini said:
Why is your daughter taking this class? Admittedly, I’m a historian myself, so when I think about homeschooling (my daughter is 10 months old, so I don’t have to make a decision right away) the idea of teaching her history is one of the main attractions. I can see why you might want to bring in someone else if history isn’t your strong point. But frankly, from the teacher’s email you really don’t need this perspective. It’s not the view of the Middle Ages held by serious secular historians any more. It’s an old 19th-century approach maintained today by conservative Protestants for sectarian reasons. The Middle Ages are absolutely fascinating, and your daughter needs a history teacher who can show her how rich and wonderful they were, without of course whitewashing the dark side.

The whole notion of the Middle Ages as a “dark age” followed by a glorious Renaissance is pure mythology. The reference to the darkness “lifting, but not completely” because Bunyan was still being persecuted in the 17th century is telling. Actually the 16th and 17th centuries were times of far greater persecution and religious conflict, if only because there was far more religious disagreement. Another example–the widespread fear of witchcraft and the mass killing of suspected people was a phenomenon primarily of the Renaissance and early modern era, not of the Middle Ages, yet people routinely associate it with the latter because of this same old-fashioned stereotype.

Edwin
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What Edwin said!!👍 👍

I think taking your daughter out of the class was absolutely the right thing to do. The teacher insisting on teaching her own opinions as history, is not education; its:( propagandizing.
 
I would cease participating with this group immediately.
If they are teaching this load of hockey as history, that puts all their teaching on other historical subjects in doubt, as well as the resources they use.

And we actually have homeschoolers who balk at the idea of participating in Catholic RE classes, yet you are willing to participate in an anti-Catholic, ill-informed, acrimonious “Christian” group? now there is an oxymoron for you.
 
puzzleannie said:
I
And we actually have homeschoolers who balk at the idea of participating in Catholic RE classes, yet you are willing to participate in an anti-Catholic, ill-informed, acrimonious “Christian” group? now there is an oxymoron for you.
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Excuse me? This group hires teachers to teach to teach individual subjects. There are many different classes to chose from from many different teachers. This is the first time I’ve run into a problem.

And my daughter absolutely attends our parish religious education classes because they are orthodox in content. My daughter is well aware that this homeschool program contains many protestants and their views may be different than ours. That is wholly different by the way than taking religious education classes at a Catholic church and being taught a watered down nearly protestant theology which is what my former parish had.
 
rayne89 said:
This was the teacher’s response to my email
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Enough said. The teacher doesn’t even realize her deep anti-Catholic biases.

Take her out of the class unless you want to spend the rest of the day disputing everything she learned.
 
rayne89 said:
Excuse me? This group hires teachers to teach to teach individual subjects. There are many different classes to chose from from many different teachers. This is the first time I’ve run into a problem.

.
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I repeat if this group hires teachers to teach different subjects and accepts this collection of lies as actual history, they are not competent to teach any history. I say that as person whose degrees are in history and who worked in that profession most of my life. If they hired that teacher without evaluating her qualifications, they are also NOT competent to hire teachers of any subject.

If you take exception to what is being taught in your CAtholic parish RE PLEASE as one of the better informed parents in the parish answer the call to step in and be one of those who improves the situation rather than whining about it. I also stand by my contention that your position is not logical. If you – quite rightly – object to bad, misinformed, untrue teaching in your parish, which you have blackballed, you MUST logically object to it in this group where your child does participate, and pull your child out on the same grounds.
 
rayne89 said:
This was the teacher’s response to my email
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No doubt you should get your daughter out of that class. The anti-catholicism is only going to get worst as she gives her opinion on the reformation. You should also make other catholic parents who have children in that class that subtle protestant prostelyzing is going on.
 
puzzleannie said:
I repeat if this group hires teachers to teach different subjects and accepts this collection of lies as actual history, they are not competent to teach any history. I say that as person whose degrees are in history and who worked in that profession most of my life. If they hired that teacher without evaluating her qualifications, they are also NOT competent to hire teachers of any subject.

If you take exception to what is being taught in your CAtholic parish RE PLEASE as one of the better informed parents in the parish answer the call to step in and be one of those who improves the situation rather than whining about it. I also stand by my contention that your position is not logical. If you – quite rightly – object to bad, misinformed, untrue teaching in your parish, which you have blackballed, you MUST logically object to it in this group where your child does participate, and pull your child out on the same grounds.
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My daughter attends religious education at our parish and it is very orthodox in nature. You must not have completely read my post. At my former parish I did attend meetings and assisted in my daughter’s class -I also catechized her at home using materials provided by Seton Homeschool because she was not being taught Catholic doctrine at our former parish.
 
rayne89 said:
My daughter attends religious education at our parish and it is very orthodox in nature. .
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I am glad to hear it. that being the case, why is she attending this non-Catholic group in the first place?
 
puzzleannie said:
I am glad to hear it. that being the case, why is she attending this non-Catholic group in the first place?
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She is taking an art class (sculpture), a biology class, an etiquette class, a spanish class and now a state history class instead (by a different teacher). These things are not offered as part of catechism, obviously.
 
Lief_Erikson said:
According to historian William Durant in his book “The Age of Faith,” page 770…
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Will Durant’s writing is notoriously anti-Catholic. He was, in fact, an avowed atheist.

He in no way can be presumed to give an accurate or unbiased account of Church history or practice.
 
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Roccop777:
Here are just a few verifiable sources which show that the Roman Catholic church did indeed forbid the possession and reading of the Bible by the laity:
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Hi, Roccop! Welcome to CAF!

Just to make sure you’re aware of the ‘rules of the road’ around here: threads that are old, and which get ‘resurrected’, get closed by the moderators. Your best course of action is to start a new thread to discuss the issue (and provide a URL to the original thread).

This thread will likely be closed soon. So, I’ll start a new thread in this section to address your assertions about Toulouse, Tarragona, et alia… 😉
 
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