Only Ten Commandments?

[chosen_people]

Thank you for the correction (I should say clarification of the different citation in scritpures - it is verse 5 in many translations) and the explanation is interesting. But doesnt the scripture itself imply more than the “impulse” and state, if not strongly imply, “sin” in conception? That is the larger context of psalm 51 as well as the actual verse?

Blessings and Shabbat Shalom.

Let’s pretend that there is a religion that believes that God did not always exist but came into existence for the first time at the time when God began to create the world. He goes to a Jew and points to the first word in the Jewish scriptures- בראשית -which is often translated into english as “In the beginning”. You see he says to the Jew, the word “In the beginning” shows that God did not always exist but only came into existence with the creation of the world.

This is what you are proposing, mutatis mutandis, when examining psalm 51. You do not believe that God did not always exist but you believe in a concept no less foreign to Judaism, that of “original sin”. You go to the Jewish scriptures, point to word or verse and proclaim, here your scripture talks of “original sin”. However, just as the Jewish scriptures could never suffer an interpretation of God not always existing they cannot suffer an interpretation of “original sin”. The writer of the psalm neither accepted or believed in such a concept. That concept is that of another religion and another time period.

 

[Robbinson]

This is what you are proposing, mutatis mutandis, when examining psalm 51. You do not believe that God did not always exist but you believe in a concept no less foreign to Judaism, that of “original sin”. You go to the Jewish scriptures, point to word or verse and ***proclaim, here your scripture ***talks of “original sin”. However, just as the Jewish scriptures could never suffer an interpretation of God not always existing they cannot suffer an interpretation of “original sin”. The writer of the psalm neither accepted or believed in such a concept. That concept is that of another religion and another time period.

Thanks for the reply - although a couple of observations.

First, I am a jewish believer in Christ (under either a biblical or rabbinic interpretation of “Israelite or Jew” (putting to the side the belief of some jews that if a jewish person who believes Yeshua is the Messiah, thereupon is no longer Jewish (but a Lubuvich who believes the rebbe, now desceased, is the messiah, quoting Isaiah 53 for the proposition of resurrection of the messiah, remains a jew? ).

Thus, “my” scriptures are “your” scriptures so when I say scripture (psalm 51) appears to imply original sin, I’m looking at the actual words and asking a sincere question. When you read them (putting aside rabbinic interpretation from the Talmud, or otherwise) for youself, the actual words and the larger context of psalm 51 itself - is it not fair to see in those words a concept of “original sin”. An intellectually honest answer will be “yes” - but a “fair” further explanation might be that you accept the Talmud as authoritative interpretation of this verse in another way which does not support original sin (if you are trying to say that).

To which I, (together with many non-Yeshua believing jews who are not Orthodox) might fairly reply that we do not believe the oral law (now recorded in the Talmud) is of the same authority as scripture.

I’d venture to suggest that even accepting your understanding of this verse, the jewish doctrine of sinful inclination is very close to original sin - as I don’t recall reading or hearing about any rabbi (in the Talmud or otherwise) who claimed the ability to have the good inclination always overwhelm the bad inclination (i.e, avoid sin all their lives).

I believe that type of righteousness would take an act of God (its contrary to "human nature), and this is the Catholic belief regarding Jesus (who was divine and without sin) and Mary, the mother of Jesus who was singularly, among mankind, conceived without original sin.

As an addendum - I do believe there are some passages in the Talmud which suggest that death entered the world as a result of Adam’s sin.

Blessings,

Brian