Only thing Christians are supposed to celebrate is the Lord's Supper --that's it!

[Buffalo2NY]

So in a forum about Christmas and how it is under attack, someone stated, “the only thing Christians are supposed to celebrate is the Lord’s Supper”.

I replied by asking, “according to who or what?” implying that that isn’t true.

I haven’t received a response yet, but I’m anticipating that the answer will be “the Bible”. He’s probably going to support his answer with a verse as well.

I would reply to that by going into all sorts of directions, from the Wedding of Cana to the Communion of Saints. What’s the best, most concise way of responding to this?

 

[Cjbhoward]

I would reply to that by going into all sorts of directions, from the Wedding of Cana to the

Personally I don’t like arguing Sola Scriptura with excerpts from the bible. I would explain how much Christmas changed for me when I started celebrating as a Catholic.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

There is no Bible verse to support this person’s claim, so until they find something that definitively states what he asserts (and he won’t be able to), the burden remains his.

BTW, I don’t get this whole “Christmas under attack” business.

 

[Buffalo2NY]

BTW, I don’t get this whole “Christmas under attack” business.

That’s just how I put it and the tone of the responses. The articles was about a Virginia school banning any Christmas carols mentioning Jesus. What followed by a few was basically, “so what? let the pagans have their holiday” --referring to Christmas.

 

[Vico]

So in a forum about Christmas and how it is under attack, someone stated, “the only thing Christians are supposed to celebrate is the Lord’s Supper”.

I replied by asking, “according to who or what?” implying that that isn’t true.

I haven’t received a response yet, but I’m anticipating that the answer will be “the Bible”. He’s probably going to support his answer with a verse as well.

I would reply to that by going into all sorts of directions, from the Wedding of Cana to the Communion of Saints. What’s the best, most concise way of responding to this?

It was Robious Middle School in Midlothian, Virginia. Attorney Michael Berry (First Liberty Institute) wrote that:

“Federal courts have upheld the constitutionality of public school holiday programs that include the use of religious music, art, or drama, so long as the material is presented in an objective manner ‘as a traditional part of the cultural and religious heritage of the particular holiday.’”

 

[Buffalo2NY]

That’s the one. My concern here isn’t the legalities, but the “Christians” responding that it doesn’t even matter because Christmas is a pagan holiday. You know…the usual stuff about Saturnalia and sun worship and all that jazz.

 

[Vico]

That’s the one. My concern here isn’t the legalities, but the “Christians” responding that it doesn’t even matter because Christmas is a pagan holiday. You know…the usual stuff about Saturnalia and sun worship and all that jazz.

Obviously we Christians do celebrate more than the Lord’s Supper. For example, there are all of the sacraments and we also have the Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament with Eucharistic Adoration, and celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours (the exercise the royal priesthood of the baptized – CCC 1174).

 

[Buffalo2NY]

Vico, agreed.

 

[Buffalo2NY]

He responded with:

“The Script, never says to celebrate Christ’s birth, His resurrection in that Christians become joint heirs, and the Lord’s supper in remembrance, but if you want to celebrate saturnalia and the winter solstice have fun with your Sun worship”

I’m not any good at this, but this is how I responded:

"Wait, so because the Scriptures don’t specifically say “do this”, it makes it wrong? Did a great multitude of the heavenly host, the angels, not give glory to the Most High on the solemn occasion that is the birth of the Son of the Most High, Jesus Christ? Interesting that you automatically deflect to Saturnalia and sun worship, when the celebration at its very core is about the birth of our Lord, Redeemer, and Savior, Jesus Christ; God lowering Himself and joining humanity --no matter how anyone tries to spin it. As the scriptures tells us, the birth of Jesus is an extraordinary, holy event in our human history.

Luke 2
8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”

16 So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger. 17 When they had seen him, they spread the word concerning what had been told them about this child, 18 and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. 19 But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. 20 The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told.

Christmas is a celebration of The Good News --The Word made flesh.

continued in next post

 

[Buffalo2NY]

continued from previous post

"Also, I’m assuming that you probably don’t accept that the remembrance of the Last Supper includes eating and drinking the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, which in this case, the Scriptures, directly tell us to. Already foreshadowed in the Old Testament, in the New were are told:

“And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This IS my body which IS given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [IS] the new testament in my blood, which IS shed for you.” - Luke 22:19-20

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give IS my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the FLESH of the Son of man, and drink his BLOOD, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh IS meat indeed, and my blood IS drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.” - John 6:51-56

“The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.” - 1 Corinthians 10:16-17

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this IS my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup IS the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat THIS bread, and drink [THIS] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, NOT DISCERNING THE LORD’S BODY.” - 1 Corinthians 11:23-29

So unlike Christmas, our celebration of the Last Supper is not only a celebration of, but an active participation in God’s great glory.

But you’re correct with this point, Christians do become joint-heirs through His resurrection."

Please let me know if I erred anywhere.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

In order for the Last Supper to happen, Jesus had to be born first. Why that wouldn’t be a cause for celebration is beyond me. :woman_shrugging:t2:

Scripture doesn’t specifically say we shouldn’t, for example, be texting during the Mass, but that doesn’t mean it’s allowed.

 

[Todd_Easton]

St Paul spoke against Christians judging other Christians for the ways they choose to honor the Lord, especially with respect to the observance or non-observance of holy days. (Romans 14:5-6)

 

[BartholomewB]

What followed by a few was basically, “so what? let the pagans have their holiday” --referring to Christmas.

The difficulty is that we don’t have certain knowledge of the origin of December 25 as the date on which we commemorate the birth of Jesus. One theory, for instance, is that Constantine took over the day of Sol Invictus, the “Unconquered Sun”, a Roman deity who seems to have been identified with the Persian god Mithras. However, it is equally possible that it happened the other way around: some pagan priests took over the Christians’ Christmas and made it the day of Sol Invictus instead, with the support of the imperial authorities, a century or two before Constantine, at a time when they were attempting to stamp out Christianity and restore pagan worship.

 

[Mintaka]

That theory is outdated. There is plenty of evidence that the Unconquered Sun festival was set up by a late period emperor to leech off Christmas, not the other way.

We know the date of Christ’s birth because we know (or rather, the early Christians knew and recorded) the date for John’s dad, Zechariah, serving in the Temple. All the other dates go from there. The exact year may be iffier, but the time of year was well-known.

The same thing goes with most Christian holidays. We know their relationship to the Jewish festival calendar (lunar/solar), or we know when martyrs died (Roman, Greek, or Egyptian calendar), because we have Biblical time cues or historical references. If you want to go back and look this stuff up, it is there to find.

The idea that Christmas was a solar festival is primarily the creation of Frazer’s Golden Bough book. He wanted to prove that Jesus was no more historical than Adonis and the same with the OT; so it is weird that Protestants think they can use his anti-Catholic stuff without recognizing his anti-Semitic and anti-Christian arguments are all tied to it.

If Christmas “replaces” anything, it replaces Chanukah. If it has aby relationship or resemblance to a solar festival, it is only because St. John the Baptist was born on the summer solstice, and there is a joke reference in the Gospel to “He must increase, and I must decrease.”

The idea that important dates in the Church Year should not be celebrated was first an anti-Catholic idea, and second an anti-fun, anti drinking and dancing and feasting idea… But it was also a way to make work continue on holidays, and to cut early Puritan groups off from their neighbors and families.

Obviously birthdays were celebrated even back in Roman times and by Jewish people. That was why Christians made a point of celebrating the martyrs’ death anniversaries as their birthdays into Heaven. But Jesus, like many Jewish prophets, was celebrated on many notable days of His life as well. He is God made man and we should honor Him often. If the angels and shepherds did it, why should we forget?

 

[BartholomewB]

That theory is outdated. There is plenty of evidence that the Unconquered Sun festival was set up by a late period emperor to leech off Christmas, not the other way.

Did you read my post through to the end? I don’t think so.

We know the date of Christ’s birth because we know (or rather, the early Christians knew and recorded) the date for John’s dad, Zechariah, serving in the Temple.

Do we know that? Or did the early Christians ever know that? Where did they get that knowledge from? And how do we know they possessed that knowledge?

 

[Francis]

Luke 1:14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice.1 Thessalonians 5:16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Ecclesiastes 11:9 Rejoice, young man, while you are young, and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Follow the inclination of your heart and the desire of your eyes, but know that for all these things God will bring you into judgment.

 

[Mintaka]

Yes, the info was contained in Zechariah serving in the course of Abijah. You can see all the relevant calculations in a book by Jack Finnegan, called the Handbook of Biblical Chronology.

(And before the destruction of Jerusalem, you could just have looked the info up in the genealogies kept in Jerusalem. Hindu clans still keep records like that, in Benares if I recall correctly.)

 

[BartholomewB]

I’m not familiar with Finnegan’s book. Is it good? Specifically, in this context, does he claim that the early Church possessed certain knowledge of the time of year at which the priestly course of Abijah served in the Temple each year? Or does he present his calculation as a conjecture supported by the balance of probabilities? It makes a difference.

 

[Wesrock]

I’m not familiar with Finnegan’s book. Is it good? Specifically, in this context, does he claim that the early Church possessed certain knowledge of the time of year at which the priestly course of Abijah served in the Temple each year? Or does he present his calculation as a conjecture supported by the balance of probabilities? It makes a difference.

I can’t speak for Finnegan, but I can say John Chrysostom used the same argument.

 

[Cjbhoward]

Please let me know if I erred anywhere

Sounds like a good answer to me.

It might help to consider all the Jewish celebrations. Including Hanaka which occurs near the end of December.

But there are dozens of Jewish feasts that occur throughout the year very similar to the liturgical calendar.