Or any likeness

[JoshuaNY]

I have a question concerning “graven images”. I beleive as the Lutheran and Catholic churches teach that having a crucifix or statues of the Blessed Virgin or Saints is fine because we are not worshiping them. And we do not beleive that these likenesses do not have any special power of their own. I just had a question concerning Exodus 20:4-5

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 20: 3-5[/BIBLEDRB]

Now I understand that where it is written ‘carved images, or any likeness’ it means that we should not create these images and then worship them. Some Christians use Exodus 4 as an attack against any sort of statue. I have told people that the commandment is to not worship these images, but some people say there is a seperation between verse 4 and 5 because their is punctuation between the sentences. And I am of the understanding that it is all one complete commandment. Is my understanding correct, that one must keep 3-5 all together to understand what God was saying?

How would you explain it?

 

[Mintaka]

You’re exactly right about taking these all together. There isn’t any punctuation in the original; the punctuation in English translations is just supposed to improve readability of these sorts of giant run-on sentences.

You’ll see a lot of older translations using colons and commas as punctuation in these sorts of sentences, to indicate that it’s all supposed to be taken as one lonnnnnnng sentence.

 

[JoshuaNY]

You’re exactly right about taking these all together. There isn’t any punctuation in the original; the punctuation in English translations is just supposed to improve readability of these sorts of giant run-on sentences.

You’ll see a lot of older translations using colons and commas as punctuation in these sorts of sentences, to indicate that it’s all supposed to be taken as one lonnnnnnng sentence.

Great, Thanks so much Mintaka. I knew my understanding wasn’t flawed. The whole Ancient Hebrew thing threw me off

 

[Robbinson]

Another thought to consider - In the Hebrew scriptures God commanded that Israel create images of the Cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant (violation of make an image? or doesn’t this suggest the context of the prohibition is worship?). Similarly, God commanded that images of the Cherubim be woven into the fabric in the Holy of Holies in the Temple. Also, God commanded Israel to create an image of the serpent to be looked upon in the desert as a sign of faith.

If I look at a photograph of my wife, it is to think of “her”, not “worship” the photograph. What God prohibited was worshiping idols as though they are gods - that is what the pagans did continually throughout cultures and particularly in Egypt when the mosaic law was given.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[JoshuaNY]

Another thought to consider - In the Hebrew scriptures God commanded that Israel create images of the Cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant (violation of make an image? or doesn’t this suggest the context of the prohibition is worship?). Similarly, God commanded that images of the Cherubim be woven into the fabric in the Holy of Holies in the Temple. Also, God commanded Israel to create an image of the serpent to be looked upon in the desert as a sign of faith.

That is a great point. That will help in my discussions. Much thanks

 

[TimothyH]

Another thought to consider - In the Hebrew scriptures God commanded that Israel create images of the Cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant (violation of make an image? or doesn’t this suggest the context of the prohibition is worship?). Similarly, God commanded that images of the Cherubim be woven into the fabric in the Holy of Holies in the Temple. Also, God commanded Israel to create an image of the serpent to be looked upon in the desert as a sign of faith.

This is an amazingly important point which illustrates how we cannot just take one Bible verse and try to interpret it outside of the context of the rest of scripture as many of the Bible-only Christains do.

Catholic’s try to discern the true sense of scripture in light of the entire Bible, from “In the Beginning…” to “Come Lord Jesus!”

If God says, “Do A” and then later says “Do not do A”, then we must try to understand the circumstances around each command, the historical context, the audience, to whom was God speaking and why, if there were any social or political concerns, etc.

-Tim-

 

[LPS]

God Himself gave Solomon very specific direction on how to build the temple. It was filled with “graven images.” An artist was specifically sought out by Solomon to cast them (1 Kings 7:13-14) and included images from “heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

1 Kings 6

18 The cedar in the interior of the temple was carved in the form of gourds and open flowers; all was of cedar, and no stone was to be seen.

23 In the sanctuary were two cherubim, each ten cubits high, made of olive wood.

29 The walls on all sides of both the inner and the outer rooms had carved figures of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers.

32 The two doors were of olive wood, with carved figures of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers. The doors were overlaid with gold, which was also molded to the cherubim and the palm trees.

1 Kings 7

18 Four hundred pomegranates were also cast; two hundred of them in a double row encircled the piece of network on each of the two capitals.

23 The sea was then cast; it was made with a circular rim, and measured ten cubits across, five in height, and thirty in circumference.
24 Under the brim, gourds encircled it, ten to the cubit all the way around; the gourds were in two rows and were cast in one mold with the sea.
25 This rested on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east, with their haunches all toward the center, where the sea was set upon them.

29 On the panels between the frames there were** lions, oxen, and cherubim**; and on the frames likewise, above and below the lions and oxen, there were wreaths in relief.

48 Solomon had all the articles made for the interior of the temple of the LORD: the golden altar; the golden table on which the showbread lay;
49 the lampstands of pure gold, five to the right and five to the left before the sanctuary, with their** flowers, lamps, and tongs of gold**;
50 basins, snuffers, bowls, cups, and fire pans of pure gold; and hinges of gold for the doors of the inner room, or holy of holies, and for the doors of the outer room, the nave.
51 When all the work undertaken by King Solomon in the temple of the LORD was completed, he brought in the dedicated offerings of his father David, putting the silver, gold, and other articles in the treasuries of the temple of the LORD.

 

[rocketrob]

The idea behind the prohibition against ‘graven images’ is that these types of objects divert attention away from the one True God, and His plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. These pagan images were of false gods of man’s own creation, and the referenced Scripture passage is related to God’s desire to liberate the people of Israel from their spiritual enslavement to the system of false gods they had endured in Egypt. Properly used Christian images ultimately direct focus toward God and His incarnate Son.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church directly addresses this topic:

“Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.” (CCC 2130)

“The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, ‘the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,’ and ‘whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.’ The honor paid to sacred images is a ‘respectful veneration,’ not the adoration due to God alone: Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.” (CCC 2132)

Go to the following site for more information: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1.shtml#art1

rocketrob