Oriel36's claim that the Holy Spirit is not a Person

[Ignatius]

oriel36:

Ignatius:

Originally Posted by Ignatius

Why do you claim to be Catholic, Are you Anglican?

I have just witnessed Fr Ambrose suspended while you brutes run around shouting usless slogans and waving the Catechism.

You doubt my Catholicism and that is fine however those who run this forum have proven themselves to be less than capable of sensing where the discussions are coming from and going to as Spiritual material and to a lesser extent the quality of intellectual application to these matters.

I am correct that the horror of an emerging brand of belief that in outward appearances adopts a Catholic face but is really the worse excesses of Pharisaic Judaism with its emphasis on the law has appeared.

I apoligize, I didn’t understand your answer to my question. So, are you Anglican or not? Thanks.

 

[oriel36]

Catholic Dude:

The more posts I read here it looks like this thread was a misunderstanding rather than a witch hunt.

I admit there is some stuff I am confused on, but if I understand the general idea then this dispute was unfounded to begin with. At first I had the impression that the Holy Spirit was outright denied, but the more posts that come up I find the real dispute is how one refers to it. The argument is like two Catholic rites going head to head (even splitting hairs) on issues not realizing they accept the same things but use different customs/conventions to demonstrate/describe them. We are on the same side here.

Johannine Christianity encompasses Apostolic Christianity without destroying the basics.

Most people who become more attached to Christ and Christianity find themselves using John more to frame their faith than any other text while the fundamentalists up the volume on the Cathechism and trivia which are in place for people who know no better.

We are certainly not on the same side with these Alogi brutes who will insist on the lowest form of interpretation on Spiritual matter for the purpose of attacking fellow Christians.The answer is always the same,there are two types of Christians within the same Spirit,one adopts the outward communal tradition through inherited cultural or geographic accident but true Conversion is solely through a gift of God and not by any human decision.

This guy or any other who says he ‘converted’ to Catholicism are robbing the texts of their true significance and indeed knowing what eating the flesh and blood of Jesus as true followers know.

’And now hear the conclusion, Brother Leo. Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: ‘What have you that you have not received?’ But we can glory in the cross of tribulations and afflictions, because that is ours, and so the Apostle says: ‘I will not glory save in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ.’"

To whom be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

The Eucharist is one thing,the cross is something else and happy are those who carry it for they carry the flesh and blood of Christ in them as St Francis and St Paul knew it.

Thank you for replying but these brutes would have the devil as their God and while pretending to ‘defend’ Catholicism they make themselves look ridiculous and do you wish to identify yourselves with their brutishness ?.

I have presented the sacred texts and the greater depths behind the outlines of certain passages but ultimately as Jesus says,no man can make the decision of Conversion while these fundamentalist brutes imagine otherwise

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever." 59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60 20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” 61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm

The Johannine Word is a living miracle for it still sees the betrayal as well as the glory and that is the reason why more reasonable and intelligent people should identify with passages that make more sense through their own daily experience.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

Johannine Christianity encompasses Apostolic Christianity without destroying the basics.

Most people who become more attached to Christ and Christianity find themselves using John more to frame their faith than any other text while the fundamentalists up the volume on the Cathechism and trivia which are in place for people who know no better.

We are certainly not on the same side with these Alogi brutes who will insist on the lowest form of interpretation on Spiritual matter for the purpose of attacking fellow Christians.The answer is always the same,there are two types of Christians within the same Spirit,one adopts the outward communal tradition through inherited cultural or geographic accident but true Conversion is solely through a gift of God and not by any human decision.

This guy or any other who says he ‘converted’ to Catholicism are robbing the texts of their true significance and indeed knowing what eating the flesh and blood of Jesus as true followers know.

’And now hear the conclusion, Brother Leo. Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: ‘What have you that you have not received?’ But we can glory in the cross of tribulations and afflictions, because that is ours, and so the Apostle says: ‘I will not glory save in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ.’"

To whom be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

The Eucharist is one thing,the cross is something else and happy are those who carry it for they carry the flesh and blood of Christ in them as St Francis and St Paul knew it.

Thank you for replying but these brutes would have the devil as their God and while pretending to ‘defend’ Catholicism they make themselves look ridiculous and do you wish to identify yourselves with their brutishness ?.

I have presented the sacred texts and the greater depths behind the outlines of certain passages but ultimately as Jesus says,no man can make the decision of Conversion while these fundamentalist brutes imagine otherwise

The Johannine Word is a living miracle for it still sees the betrayal as well as the glory and that is the reason why more reasonable and intelligent people should identify with passages that make more sense through their own daily experience.

Again with '“the brutes” and the “of the devil” talk.

When you start calling names you have lost the debate, my friend.

I for one side with our new Holy Father when he said:

“Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and “swept along by every wind of teaching”, looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today’s standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”

Also this is my assessment of the situation:

Non-fundamentalist = obtuse, esoteric, illogical, name caller (ie fundementalist, of the devil), not in agreement with the Catholic Church regarding the nature of God, the nature of the Church, and the nature of the Eucharist. (this is where you are)

Fundamentalist = clear argumentation, logical, someone who does not resort to name calling, is in agreement with the Catholic Church regarding the nature of God, the nature of the Church, and the nature of the Eucharist.

May the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is our One True God, guide you to the truth.

Peace

 

[oriel36]

Stevereeno:

Uh-oh! Dennis, he called you the F-word. That reminds me of Cardinal Ratzinger’s homily the night before he was elected.

“Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and “swept along by every wind of teaching”, looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today’s standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”

Relativism and absolutism is a bad empirical joke based on Newton’s notions of time,space and motion which the guys in the early 20th century fictionalised to include all types of relativism or homocentricity .Even the Pope, when he speaks of the ‘Big Bang’ ,he is unwittingly engaging in relativism for it is built on a view that began with Newton insofar as he give himself a geocentric/heliocentric choice that did not previously exist for astronomers.The freaks in the early 20th century expanded that choice to outright homocentricity.

Your thinking is a symptom of relativism for while I do understand where the Pope is coming from it is far removed from doctrinal tyranny that color your views.

The greatest error and oversight the world has ever seen exists at the bottom of the empirical tradition,the inability to attribute the correct value for axial rotation of the Earth and unfortunately all those clunky definitions of absolute/relative time and space are based on that screwed up view of things.

The type of material you bring up is a symptom of relativism insofar you attack what you may not be capable of comprehending,using descriptions the wrong way (such as the above excerpt) and otherwise making a nuisance of yourselves.

The people who need Christianity most are those who suffer because they know that something is missing that nothing but Christ may fill yet witness Christianity dumbed down to the Catechism and the ambiguous ‘Church’ that you are so eager to defend.

 

[Stevereeno]

oriel36:

Relativism and absolutism is a bad empirical joke based on Newton’s notions of time,space and motion which the guys in the early 20th century fictionalised to include all types of relativism or homocentricity .Even the Pope, when he speaks of the ‘Big Bang’ ,he is unwittingly engaging in relativism for it is built on a view that began with Newton insofar as he give himself a geocentric/heliocentric choice that did not previously exist for astronomers.The freaks in the early 20th century expanded that choice to outright homocentricity.

The Holy father was not speaking about Einstein’s physics, he was speaking on matters of metaphysics.

oriel36:

Your thinking is a symptom of relativism for while I do understand where the Pope is coming from it is far removed from doctrinal tyranny that color your views.

My post was almost entirely a quote of the Holy Father. How could you deduce this nonsense?

oriel36:

The greatest error and oversight the world has ever seen exists at the bottom of the empirical tradition,the inability to attribute the correct value for axial rotation of the Earth and unfortunately all those clunky definitions of absolute/relative time and space are based on that screwed up view of things.

Shees! So much time I’ve wasted thinking that abortion is the greatest evil facing the world today. When all along it was right under my nose. Of course, the inability to attribute the correct value for axial rotation of the Earth IS the greatest evil imaginable. We must unite to defeat it!

oriel36:

The type of material you bring up is a symptom of relativism insofar you attack what you may not be capable of comprehending,using descriptions the wrong way (such as the above excerpt) and otherwise making a nuisance of yourselves.

In one breath relativism is based on “Newton’s notions of time”, in the next breath it means to “attack what you may not be capable of comprehending”. Which is it?

oriel36:

The people who need Christianity most are those who suffer because they know that something is missing that nothing but Christ may fill yet witness Christianity dumbed down to the Catechism and the ambiguous ‘Church’ that you are so eager to defend.

The Church is ambiguous?? Heh!!

 

[Ignatius]

oriel36:

Ignatius:

Why do you claim to be Catholic, Are you Anglican?

**

I have just witnessed Fr Ambrose suspended while you brutes run around shouting usless slogans and waving the Catechism.

You doubt my Catholicism and that is fine however those who run this forum have proven themselves to be less than capable of sensing where the discussions are coming from and going to as Spiritual material and to a lesser extent the quality of intellectual application to these matters.

I am correct that the horror of an emerging brand of belief that in outward appearances adopts a Catholic face but is really the worse excesses of Pharisaic Judaism with its emphasis on the law has appeared.

I apologize; I didn’t understand your answer to my question. So, are you Anglican or not? Thanks.