original sin and baptism

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comebacktome

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Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin? I’m talking with a Bible Christian, and I feel I have enough Scripture to support the doctrine of OS, but I’m not sure I can make any convincing case for Baptism and it’s necessity out of Scripture.
But, OTOH, why is Protestantism filled with so many empty, symbolic rituals, like Baptism, which as I understand it, is a symbolic gesture like the Lord’s Supper?
If we get down to fundamentals, didn’t Jesus intend to do away with meaningless rituals?
 
comebacktome said:
Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin? I’m talking with a Bible Christian, and I feel I have enough Scripture to support the doctrine of OS, but I’m not sure I can make any convincing case for Baptism and it’s necessity out of Scripture.
But, OTOH, why is Protestantism filled with so many empty, symbolic rituals, like Baptism, which as I understand it, is a symbolic gesture like the Lord’s Supper?
If we get down to fundamentals, didn’t Jesus intend to do away with meaningless rituals?
Click to expand...
catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp
catholic.com/library/Baptismal_Grace.asp
catholic.com/library/Born_Again_in_Baptism.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0505fr.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304sbs.asp
 
comebacktome said:
Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin? I’m talking with a Bible Christian, and I feel I have enough Scripture to support the doctrine of OS, but I’m not sure I can make any convincing case for Baptism and it’s necessity out of Scripture.
But, OTOH, why is Protestantism filled with so many empty, symbolic rituals, like Baptism, which as I understand it, is a symbolic gesture like the Lord’s Supper?
If we get down to fundamentals, didn’t Jesus intend to do away with meaningless rituals?
Click to expand...
I’m sorry that you feel that baptism and the Lord’s Supper are just “ermpty rituals”. We happen to think that they’re beautiful and deeply signifigant.
 
Pastor_Jim said:
I’m sorry that you feel that baptism and the Lord’s Supper are just “ermpty rituals”. We happen to think that they’re beautiful and deeply signifigant.
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Well, I’m sorry you take offense. However, as a Catholic I am often accused of practing rituals as “works” that the Church teaches can “earn” my salvation.
Well, if both faiths (Catholic and Bible Christians) practice rituals of some sort, then it seems to me that the Jesus we both claim would have made those rituals something more significant those that came before. (OT)
The CC teaches something sacred and supernatural is happening, Bible Christians think it’s…not, so feel free to correct my understanding.
 
comebacktome said:
Well, I’m sorry you take offense. However, as a Catholic I am often accused of practing rituals as “works” that the Church teaches can “earn” my salvation.
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Yes…and?
…Catholic and Bible Christians…
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Thank you for being honest about this. If I’ve learned anything in my short time here, it’s that Catholics and Bible Christians are two entirely different entities.
The CC teaches something sacred and supernatural is happening, Bible Christians think it’s…not, so feel free to correct my understanding.
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Unfortunately, while your church’s propaganda machine may tell you that we don’t believe that anything “sacred and supernatural” is happening, nothing could be further from the truth.

Of course, you’re going to continue to believe whatever your church tells you about what we believe, rather than asking us, yourself.
 
Pastor_Jim said:
Yes…and?

Thank you for being honest about this. If I’ve learned anything in my short time here, it’s that Catholics and Bible Christians are two entirely different entities.

Unfortunately, while your church’s propaganda machine may tell you that we don’t believe that anything “sacred and supernatural” is happening, nothing could be further from the truth.

Of course, you’re going to continue to believe whatever your church tells you about what we believe, rather than asking us, yourself.
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I think **Bible only **Christians are meant. It sounds like you are a Sola Scriptura believer but of course such a position doesn’t make sense. I would like you to tell us where in the Bible it says Bible only.
 
thistle said:
I think Bible only Christians are meant. It sounds like you are a Sola Scriptura believer but of course such a position doesn’t make sense. I would like you to tell us where in the Bible it says Bible only.
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Nice strawman.
 
Of course, you’re going to continue to believe whatever your church tells you about what we believe, rather than asking us, yourself.
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What part of my earlier statement “feel free to correct my understanding” didn’t properly fall into the “asking us yourself” category?

Please explain how these sacraments are “sacred and supernatural” to you.
 
comebacktome said:
Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin?
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I’d start withActs 2:38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.Then I’d read up on thistle’s links. And keep in the back of your mind that a Bible-only Christian demanding “proof” from Scripture is using man-made criteria.
 
comebacktome said:
Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin?
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Acts 2:38 is a great start.

Also look at John 3:5, Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When Jesus says “unless a man be born again,” He is has declared that baptism is necessary. Both water and Spirit are working together.

and 1 Peter 3:18-22, * Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Who is on the right hand of God, swallowing down death, that we might be made heirs of life everlasting: being gone into heaven, the angels and powers and virtues being made subject to him.*
 
Pastor_Jim said:
Of course, you’re going to continue to believe whatever your church tells you about what we believe, rather than asking us, yourself.
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I hope that your Church does not blast Catholic teachings. I have heard many non-Catholic Christian pastors/preachers say many harsh words, and lies I might add, about the Catholic Church and Her teachings during their sermons or talks.
 
comebacktome said:
Why does the Catholic Church teach that Baptism washes away Original Sin? I’m talking with a Bible Christian, and I feel I have enough Scripture to support the doctrine of OS, but I’m not sure I can make any convincing case for Baptism and it’s necessity out of Scripture.
Click to expand...
There is tons of proof for it and other posters have already shown that.
comebacktome said:
But, OTOH, why is Protestantism filled with so many empty, symbolic rituals, like Baptism, which as I understand it, is a symbolic gesture like the Lord’s Supper?
If we get down to fundamentals, didn’t Jesus intend to do away with meaningless rituals?
Click to expand...
The Old Covenant was not useless. It was, as the Apostle says, a tutor to prepare us and show us our need for Christ and the grace He gives. Jesus Himself said that He did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Yes, the ritual law of the Old Covenant was done away with because it was seen as a means to do rituals in order to make yourself clean and acceptable to God but none of those rituals had the power to do it. That is key, they were not efficacious.

Jesus came and gave us the grace to be acceptable to God so as to merit eternal salvation - merit in this since is God giving it to us not merit through our own work since as the Catechism rightly points out, strictly speaking we have no right to any merit in regard to God. The Sacraments are means of grace, ways God gives us grace. The One Who makes them efficacious is Christ working through His ministers, priests. It is not a way to earn salvation as no one is earning anything. They are receiving. At Holy Baptism we receive the laver to cleanse us of Original Sin. At Holy Mass we receive Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist to give us the grace to keep His commandments and to love Him. At Penance Christ forgives us and gives us grace to resist and turn away from sin. In every instance it is Christ giving to us through His ministers, the priests. It is not us doing or earning anything. Jesus did everything and earned everything. He gives everything. We merely receive from Him. The New Testament is full of evidence for all these Sacraments.

By the way, it’s not really nice to speak of Bible Believing Christians as if Catholics are not Bible believing too. St. Jerome, one of our holy fathers, said that to be ignorant of Sacred Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ Himself. Every Catholic ought to be the strongest advocate and believer in the Bible there is since it is the Church’s Book, given to her from God.

Pax Christi tecum.
 
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