Original Sin

[CeaselessMedik]

If the CC doesn’t take the story of creation as history (which, I assume, it does not, as all evidence points to evolution as opposed to woman coming from a rib), then how can it base its doctrine/dogma of original sin on it?

 

[blacktiger057]

Original sin doesn’t make sense to me at all. Adam and Eve ate the apple, so all of us get punished?

 

[CeaselessMedik]

As I understand it, “original sin” is supposedly not an actual sin, but the capacity for sin we got from Adam and Eve because of the choice they made.

But if Adam and Eve didn’t exist, then that’s a pretty big hole in this doctrine/dogma.

 

[blacktiger057]

I think the whole adam and eve story is symbolic in nature. It also blames the women for everything as well and gave men a reason to mistreat them.

 

[runandsew]

Adam, Eve, and Evolution

The Church doesn’t teach one way or another if creation was 6 - 24 hour days or not. It does teach that there were an actual Adam and Eve, and they fell from grace.

Adam and Eve: Real People

It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Adam and Eve were real people and are the parents of us all. That is De Fide Dogma.

Original sin is not a stain and we are not totally depraved like the Protestants say.

We don’t have sanctifying grace which Adam and Eve had before they sinned.

Sanctifying grace makes one always inclined to be doing the will of God.

That’s why Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed. They had sanctifying grace. They weren’t inclined to viewing one another with lust before they first sinned–after they sinned they made garments to clother their nakedness. Being naked bothered them then.

Without Sanctifying grace they were cursed with concupisence which is the inclination to not do God’s will.

In and of itself it is not a sin but it is always a predisposing force that inclines one to sin.

Mary who was Immaculately conceived was given back sanctifying grace which Adam and Eve was lost–in fact she was Full of grace–so she never was Inclined to do what was evil–that doesn’t mean she wasn’t tempted–it only means that the inclination was to do good and not sin.

Jesus also had sanctifying grace. He had no predisposition or inclination to do what was wrong but as we read in the scriptures He was tempted by Satan.

So Lack of Sanctifying grace is not a stain or an infection that all of us have because of the actions of Adam and Eve–it is a choice by God to withold Sanctifying grace from us.

In other words God isn’t required to give sanctifying grace to us–the reason He witholds it from us like He did from Adam and Eve is that we’re all part of the human family–in other words if we were in the same shoes as Adam and Eve–even though we may not want to admit it–we probably would make the same choice that they did.

Thanks be to God that He gave sanctifying grace to Mary and she was redeemed by Her son because of His righteousness before He was born.

Why could Jesus do that? Because Jesus being God is beyond time.

If you don’t believe that Mary could be without sin what you’re really saying is that if God gives someone so much grace that they are Full with it that that still isn’t enough to defeat Satan!

What that really says is Satan is more pwerful than God. That of course is untrue!

And if anyone believes that original sin is anything other than lack of sanctifying grace and that Mary had original sin and that it stains everyone including her permanently what they’re saying is that the perfect Jesus united His humanity with a sin infinested and tainted Mary. That is also untrue because God cannot unite with sin.

But for all those people out there who think they’re sophisticated and that evolution is entirely true and that all Genesis is is just a fable just know this: The Catholic Church has always taught that Adam and Eve are the parents of us all.

If you don’t believe that you don’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

It isn’t an either/or situation between evolution and creationism–regardless of How God chose to create at some point in the past the first pair of humans from which we descended–they Did have souls and did choose evil.

Those people are Adam and Eve–regardless of whether you believe in 6-day literal creationism or theistic evolution.

The result of original sin is that until our deaths we do have to fight against coucupisence or an inclination towards evil.

But God has provided the sacraments of the Catholic Church as faucets of grace where we can recieve from God the graces needed to avoid sin.

If we don’t become perfect here in this life–we will become perfect in purgatory or burn in Hell–in any event regardless of the effects of original sin–we must all become perfect before we enter Heaven–that’s why Jesus commanded us to “Be ye perfect”.

With us it is impossible–with God all things are possible.

 

[Greg27]

The doctrine of original sin is basically an attempt to explain the origin of evil and suffering.

In the early church, it can be accurately said there were two main views about the fall; one, that Adam and Eve either symbolised human nature in its entirety, or were two historical individuals.

Various church fathers speculated in various ways about the fall and what exactly happened. The Eastern Fathers tended to see the fall as a bad choice, a mistake made due to ignorance and neglect by Adam and Eve or by other beings in contemplating or abiding in the true Good, which was God. Western Fathers tended to see sin more as a transgression of divine law.

The divergence occured with St Augustine, who is the archetype for theology in the West and whose ideas have had immense influence. St Augustine believed that Adam and Eve were created as perfect and fully complete beings. They were given a choice; to obey or disobey God’s law in Eden. They freely chose to disobey God’s law, and were thus justly punished by God by death, corruption, suffering, and toil. Also in Augustine’s view the fall meant fallen humanity could not justly claim to the vision of God; in fact, God’s justice and the guilt of humankind demanded that God punishes all of fallen humanity to perdition. But by God’s mercy and grace he chooses and saves some human beings through predestination and grace, while allowing the rest to perish. Augustine also believed that sin had a hereditary nature, that is, each human being inherits the guilt from the original sin of Adam as well as the guilt from personal sins committed in life. The consequences of this (which are basically damnation) can only be removed by baptism.

The Eastern Fathers on the other hand, tended to see death and corruption as the main consequences of the fall, as God had originally made man and woman to undergo theosis, that is, to be divinised and blessed and taken into God’s glory, in this life and the next. Sin represented a free choice to miss this glory and a choice instead for nothingness and non-being from the fullness and life of God’s being. Sin then is both an inherited and mysterious form of corruption which infects the spirit/somatic whole of man in a strange way which seizes and takes hold of him, especially through the ‘passions’, which are disordered forms of affections for created things over God. Sin then is a form of physical, spiritual and psychological disease which corrupts and ruins man at the deepest levels but which can still be healed through grace and the sacraments. Through the grace of baptism and the sacraments and ascesis the Christian can still hope for theosis in this life, which is an anticipation of the glory the saints will have in the next.

Both Eastern and Western Christianity agree that sin exists, though in the West it is seen more in terms of violating God’s justice and law, while in the East it is missing the natural end humanity was made for, which is divinisation and the vision of God.