Orthodox: Women, babies, and communion

[Woodstock]

This is a split from the thread Baby receiving Holy Communion through Mother. In that thread, a Roman Catholic woman wanted to know if her baby was also receiving the Eucharist since the baby receives part of everything she eats.

I would like to discuss instead the extension of the eastern patristics which restrict women from receiving the Eucharist during menstruation. The thought process is that they will bleed out the Lord. Modern Orthodox who do not restrict women from the chalice say the menstrual blood is a month old and doesn’t contain the Lord. People who are actively bleeding from a wound are still to be denied.

With that in mind, what would the East say about the woman’s question? Is the child receiving the Eucharist through his mother’s blood? Do you know of any canons or patristic sources which address this? I’d be interested in reading more.

 

[grandfather]

This is a split from the thread Baby receiving Holy Communion through Mother. In that thread, a Roman Catholic woman wanted to know if her baby was also receiving the Eucharist since the baby receives part of everything she eats.

I would like to discuss instead the extension of the eastern patristics which restrict women from receiving the Eucharist during menstruation. The thought process is that they will bleed out the Lord. Modern Orthodox who do not restrict women from the chalice say the menstrual blood is a month old and doesn’t contain the Lord. People who are actively bleeding from a wound are still to be denied.

With that in mind, what would the East say about the woman’s question? Is the child receiving the Eucharist through his mother’s blood? Do you know of any canons or patristic sources which address this? I’d be interested in reading more.

Infants receive three sacraments, Baptism, Chrismation/Confirmation and Holy Eucharist all at once. After their initiation the smallest babies receive directly from the chalice. The priest puts his finger in the chalice and inserts it into the baby’s mouth.

 

[roanoker]

Well, that doesn’t answer her question. I’d be interested in the answer, too. Roanoker

 

[Hesychios]

Well, that doesn’t answer her question. I’d be interested in the answer, too. Roanoker

I don’t think there will be one forthcoming.
*
Michael*

 

[grandfather]

Well, that doesn’t answer her question. I’d be interested in the answer, too. Roanoker

The baby receives the Sacrament from the priest. There is no point in wondering further unless we feel the need to be gnat strainers. The Catholic Church holds that once the matter is disolved by digestion, which might take fifteen or twenty minutes, there is no longer Presence.

 

[Woodstock]

The Catholic Church holds that once the matter is disolved by digestion, which might take fifteen or twenty minutes, there is no longer Presence.

I’m asking what the Orthodox Churches teach because I am curious about the implications on unborn babies.

 

[grandfather]

I’m asking what the Orthodox Churches teach because I am curious about the implications on unborn babies.

I don’t know. I prayed outside an abortion mill for several years. The spiritual effect of this on people who do it is interesting.

On the way to Calvary Jesus spoke to the courageous women who followed Him. “Do not weep for me, but weep for your children”. He was speaking of the generations to come.

In Revelations one of the images presented is a multitude whose innocent blood cries out to God for justice. The consequences of sin always seem invisible to the sinner, at first. At first the idea is we can get away with it. There a over a million abortions per year in the U.S. and about 40 million worldwide. That is an ocean of innocent blood. The cry is, how long Lord, unitl you bring us justice? The devastation coming to the world is immense. People today are worried about a percent or two in the unemployment rate, or who will win the World Series, or what movie star is getting divorced or is in rehab, while 4000 babies per day are murdered, whose murders are sanctioned by the government by the people. Now we are seeing under the auspices of this system people have become so confused that they think men can marry men. They think they can make the moral law and we will suffer the fate of Sodom. It will be sudden, terrible and horrifying. God will not be mocked forever.

 

[Reader_John]

When we receive the communion, the Eucharist, we are participating in the holy banquet and feast which is the crucified Christ. This banquet is done in remembrance of Christ’s passion as well as for the remission of sins, and finally as to what the word ‘communion’ implies, to be in full and absolute communion (part of a community) with God the Father.

St. Paul speaks of the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 6:19) When a child is present inside the body, they are given only what the mother feeds them. A child in the womb is completely dependent on the mother for existence. This is what Christ means when he tells the deciles to “become as little children.” (Mat 18:3) The child, who is completely dependent on its mother, is the most humble creature. Christ goes on to say in Matthew that whoever humbles himself like a child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.

So when it comes to the question of whether the child is receiving the Eucharist when its mother consumes it, I would go as so far to say that instead everything the child receives is the Eucharist. The child is already residing in the Temple of the Holy Spirit, in complete communion with God, and is considered the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. If, for example, the mother were to break the fast, the child would not by default also be breaking the fast.

In the Orthodox Church, the baptism, chrismation, and what is referred to by Catholics as the “first communion” all happen during the same time, almost always during the Divine Liturgy, and most commonly within 40 days of the child’s birth. This does not mean that before this point, the child is not watched after by God. The child has already been given life and nourished in the temple of God for 9 months.

Often when infants die before they are baptized (during baptism they receive the title “the servant of God”) they are referred to by the Church as “Holy Innocents.” An example of this are the 14,000 Holy Innocents killed by King Herod in Bethlehem when Herod was looking to kill Christ. The Orthodox Church commemorates them as the first Martyrs of Christ and celebrates their feast day on December 29th (new calender) every year.

The Orthodox Church does not believe that infants go into limbo or are cast into hell because of original sin. The sin is simply our choice to disobey God. Children, especially those in the womb, do not choose to disobey God and are in perfect communion with Him. After the child leaves the womb and begins to mature, it is the responsibility of the parents, friends, and godparents (hence where the name comes from) to teach the child and to help it grow and fully love God.

Finally, concerning hell, I have posted the words of a Saint in the Orthodox Church, Isaac the Syrian (6th Century):

“Those who find themselves in Gehenna will be chastised with the scourge of Love. How cruel and bitter this torment of Love will be! For those who understand they have sinned against Love, undergo greater sufferings than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against Love, is more piercing than any other pain! It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the Love of God… but Love acts in two different ways: as suffering in the reproved, and as joy in the blessed.”