Orthodoxy/Liberalism...Heterodoxy/Conservative

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loyola_rambler

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With all of the misused terms causing confusion on the boards, it would be nice to actually know where each of us is on the spectrums of both theology and politics.

So based on the following definitions, where are you on the spectra?

**Theologically: **

Hardline Orthodox: Does not deviate from any doctrine, teaching or age old tradition of the Church. Even when latitude is given to the prelate, I prefer that we not change anything that has been established for centuries.

Orthodox: conforming to established doctrine especially in religion. I am not tolerant of change for the sake of change, but will accept what the Magisterium changes because they know best.

**Moderate: **I am fully faithful to the de fide teachings of the Church, but am tolerant of the nuances of culture and location that are permissable under Canon and the teachings of the Church.

Heterodox: contrary to or different from an acknowledged standard, a traditional form, or an established religion : UNORTHODOX. There are teachings that I find very difficult to accept and believe the Lord allows me to follow my conscience.

Heretic: I don’t care what any of you think, I have a wonderful relationship with my creator and She knows my heart. I might be pro-Choice and I might support female priests…and that’s something you’ll just have to accept about me.

Politically:
Far-Right Wing: Put me on par with Pat Buchanan and get all those liberal whiners out of office. You might say I’m to the right of Atilla the Hun.

**Right Wing: **I’m pro-life, pro-military, support sound fiscal and social policies and can’t wait for the tax code to get revamped (more or less).

Moderate: I’m probably more of a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, but either extreme is filled with nuts who will take this country into a bad place if they go unchecked. Call me the voice of reason.

**Left Wing: **I can understand a little fiscal responsibility, but we can’t compromise social-welfare for the fat cats who don’t pay their fair share of taxes. I’m probably closer to Jimmy Carter than I am to Teddy Kennedy.

Kall Me Kennedy: I’m pro-Choice, believe that government needs to meet the needs of the oppressed and can’t stand the war in Iraq. More butter…no guns…you’ll see me on the picket lines making sure women’s rights are preserved.
 
Hmmm… You know I was looking and looking and just couldn’t find Über up there anywhere. So, I guess I’d have to go with theologically I’m Orthodox and Politically, I can’t find what I am up there. If there were an honest pro-life Democrat, I’d probably be that instead of a registered Republican. Although with Pro-abortion Arnie in the Governor’s mansion, I sat the last election out on principle. So much for the Republican party being anti-abortion :banghead:

Roberta…these icons are getting addictive.
 
I’m a religious moderate. I have full faith and great devotion…but too much of what someone around here has called the “Catholic Taliban” takes issue with is IMHO extremism without merit. Lots of things are griped about that aren’t abuses or excesses at all. They’re differences that are perfectly legitimate, licit and valid. Without them, we wouldn’t be a truly “catholic” church that brings together the vast diversity of humans in this world and shows respect for others and *their *needs.

Politically, I was considered to the extreme right of Atilla the Hun in the mid-80s. But the Right has continued shifting and I’ve pretty much stayed where I was. Now I’m considered to the right of center, but definitely not an extremist. In pushing the Right out to where it is now, we’re losing some very important beliefs that are essential to maintaining our freedoms and rights that are critical to the continued success of our country.
 
Thank you, Loyola Rambler! That was a fun informal poll. I usually consider myself a “conservative,” but with your precise definitions I am both a religious and political moderate. I agree that there is often too much of a “Catholic Taliban” feeling going around. I can be very strict on a particular issue but always seems to TAKE issue with the hard-liners who want total committment to a loosely defined cause. I don’t see how or why we should be more strict than God and the Church ask us to be.
 
You forgot to include in the right wong politicos the “neo-cons” or as we like to say leftist Republicans who want nothing more than to control your heart mind and soul, expand BIG government at any and every possible chance and throw a few bones to their fringe supporters…

If I had to pick and choose a political label, I’d say I am closer to a libertarian than to the pseudo coices you have offered in your poll.

On the religious side, I’m basically orthodox except in matters regarding tithing, church attendance, divorce, meat on Fridays, use of vernacular at Mass, clown masses, and …

Where is the bar chart poll results.

I expect better graphics from an academic…
 
I am in between the hardline orthodox and the orthodox. sometimes, even prelates, when given lattitude or not do some things are completely off the wall. in the political scope, i would find myself conservative in social issues but ‘liberal’ (though i hate the word) on social issues – help for the poor and those in need, etc. i am not, however, a “bleeding heart liberal” by any stretch of the immagination.
 
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equinas5:
You forgot to include in the right wong politicos the “neo-cons” or as we like to say leftist Republicans who want nothing more than to control your heart mind and soul, expand BIG government at any and every possible chance and throw a few bones to their fringe supporters…

If I had to pick and choose a political label, I’d say I am closer to a libertarian than to the pseudo coices you have offered in your poll.

On the religious side, I’m basically orthodox except in matters regarding tithing, church attendance, divorce, meat on Fridays, use of vernacular at Mass, clown masses, and …

Where is the bar chart poll results.

I expect better graphics from an academic…
Click to expand...
Oh pulleaaazzee! Be honest with people and at least admit that you’re a bleeding heart liberal member of the Chicago Political machine and deeply in bed with the Daley cronies…that you are pro everything that any self-respecting Republican loathes and you’re to the left of Ralph Nader on all things social and political…with a strong affinity to “the good old days” of Democratic politics when Jerry Brown, Teddy Kennedy and Gary Hart were in charge and groupies hung all over the political delegates.

Think I hit that one on the head?
 
loyola rambler:
With all of the misused terms causing confusion on the boards, it would be nice to actually know where each of us is on the spectrums of both theology and politics.

So based on the following definitions, where are you on the spectra?

Theologically:

Hardline Orthodox: Does not deviate from any doctrine, teaching or age old tradition of the Church. Even when latitude is given to the prelate, I prefer that we not change anything that has been established for centuries.

Orthodox: conforming to established doctrine especially in religion. I am not tolerant of change for the sake of change, but will accept what the Magisterium changes because they know best.

**Moderate: **I am fully faithful to the de fide teachings of the Church, but am tolerant of the nuances of culture and location that are permissable under Canon and the teachings of the Church.

Heterodox: contrary to or different from an acknowledged standard, a traditional form, or an established religion : UNORTHODOX. There are teachings that I find very difficult to accept and believe the Lord allows me to follow my conscience.

Heretic: I don’t care what any of you think, I have a wonderful relationship with my creator and She knows my heart. I might be pro-Choice and I might support female priests…and that’s something you’ll just have to accept about me.

Politically:

Far-Right Wing: Put me on par with Pat Buchanan and get all those liberal whiners out of office. You might say I’m to the right of Atilla the Hun.

**Right Wing: **I’m pro-life, pro-military, support sound fiscal and social policies and can’t wait for the tax code to get revamped (more or less).

Moderate: I’m probably more of a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, but either extreme is filled with nuts who will take this country into a bad place if they go unchecked. Call me the voice of reason.

**Left Wing: **I can understand a little fiscal responsibility, but we can’t compromise social-welfare for the fat cats who don’t pay their fair share of taxes. I’m probably closer to Jimmy Carter than I am to Teddy Kennedy.

Kall Me Kennedy: I’m pro-Choice, believe that government needs to meet the needs of the oppressed and can’t stand the war in Iraq. More butter…no guns…you’ll see me on the picket lines making sure women’s rights are preserved.
Click to expand...
I would change the last one to **Kall Me Kerry **since he is futher left than Kennedy according to a poll of congressmen
 
*Oh pulleaaazzee! Be honest with people and at least admit that you’re a bleeding heart liberal member of the Chicago Political machine and deeply in bed with the Daley cronies…that you are pro everything that any self-respecting Republican loathes and you’re to the left of Ralph Nader on all things social and political…with a strong affinity to “the good old days” of Democratic politics when Jerry Brown, Teddy Kennedy and Gary Hart were in charge and groupies hung all over the political delegates.

Think I hit that one on the head?*
DINGO DOUGHNUTS!

**As you can plainly Ms. or Mr. Loyal-Rumbler (as I would have no idea of your gender being so new to the types of forums), I have only posted here eight times previous to this reply. **

**How would YOU know anything about my politics or religion? **

I am afraid that you fail, as do most of the knuckle draggers of the ‘right’, to recognize the difference between ‘self-respecting’ Republican and conservative.

And besides since when would membership in the Daley machine indicate anything of the sort of bleeding heart liberal that is so manifest in the national Donkey party.

And for the record, I am not and have never been a member of the Daley Mafia, employed by the City of Chicago, etc. etc. cough-cough
 
equinas5 said:
Oh pulleaaazzee! Be honest with people and at least admit that you’re a bleeding heart liberal member of the Chicago Political machine and deeply in bed with the Daley cronies…that you are pro everything that any self-respecting Republican loathes and you’re to the left of Ralph Nader on all things social and political…with a strong affinity to “the good old days” of Democratic politics when Jerry Brown, Teddy Kennedy and Gary Hart were in charge and groupies hung all over the political delegates.

Think I hit that one on the head?
DINGO DOUGHNUTS!

**As you can plainly Ms. or Mr. Loyal-Rumbler (as I would have no idea of your gender being so new to the types of forums), I have only posted here eight times previous to this reply. **

**How would YOU know anything about my politics or religion? **

I am afraid that you fail, as do most of the knuckle draggers of the ‘right’, to recognize the difference between ‘self-respecting’ Republican and conservative.

And besides since when would membership in the Daley machine indicate anything of the sort of bleeding heart liberal that is so manifest in the national Donkey party.

And for the record, I am not and have never been a member of the Daley Mafia, employed by the City of Chicago, etc. etc. cough-cough
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, yeah…Southside Irish is all over your post!
 
loyola rambler said:
Hardline Orthodox: Does not deviate from any doctrine, teaching or age old tradition of the Church. Even when latitude is given to the prelate, I prefer that we not change anything that has been established for centuries.
Click to expand...

Were you thinking of me when you crafted this definition, Loyola? I would say that this describes me to a tee. Ours is necessarily a conservative faith; we cannot know anything other than what Christ told us, so it is impossible that we could come to believe anything genuinely new. It is, of course, possible that we could come to an ever greater understanding of that which we have always believed, but if it is truly to be called “Catholic,” it must have been present in the Faith since the beginning, even if only implicitly.

loyola rambler said:
**Left Wing: **I can understand a little fiscal responsibility, but we can’t compromise social-welfare for the fat cats who don’t pay their fair share of taxes. I’m probably closer to Jimmy Carter than I am to Teddy Kennedy.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty good fit for me. Jimmy Carter (God bless him) was mind kind of Democrat - pro-life but left-of-center. Truth be told, I think my party (the Democrats) is rather wandering in the desert right now, lost from its blue collar roots, and the sooner it can return to the sort of worldview exemplified by Gov. Casey of Pennsylvania, the better off we will all be. The unseemly entheusiasm for legal murder which prevails among the Democrats today is scarcely characteristic of true “progressivism” (as we leftists like to call our leftisms).

That said, I just cannot believe that the Republican party and its various rightist spin-offs can ever exemplify a truly Catholic worldview. No one can convince me that Rerum Novarum is a libertarian manifesto, or that Pacem in Terris squares with the neo-con kill-'em-all-and-let-God-sort-'em-out style of international policy exemplified by Cheney & al. America was born in Calvinism, and as such, American conservatism will always be a hearkening back to a tradition that is squarely at odds with the Catholic view of the good life.
 
Hmmm…

Theologically speaking, I’m moderate with orthodox leanings.

Politically speaking, mostly moderate with a few conservative leanings, mostly in the pro-life category- and that means pro-life across the board (not just for unborn children).
 
Interesting. By your definitions, I might actually be a little less than fully heretical (though probably a tad beyond heterodox), but you can certainly Kall Me Kennedy/Kerry. Actually, Kall Me Klinton (Hillary), because I think she’s more liberal than he ever was!

A website that some might find interesting will put you on a social/economic left-right grid… not just left-right, but up-down, too.

politicalcompass.org/

There, I was bumping along that bottom left corner…

Naprous
 
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