OSAS and John 10:27-28

[Gorgias]

The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church.

And in teaching so, it teaches simply that all salvation comes from Christ, not that it only comes to those who are visibly part of the Church.

All who are in the Church are in Christ

Again, there’s the inverse: yes, all in the Church are in Christ; but, that doesn’t logically imply that all who are in Christ are in the Church. Except…

They may not realize they are in His flock, but when they follow their conscience and obey His voice, they are in Christ.

… except that you think that you’re asserting it here. Even so, please notice that you’re not asserting that they’re “in the Church”, but rather, that they’re “in Christ.” I agree – you’re correct here – they are “in Christ”. However, that’s not what you (and Steve) were attempting to prove. Rather, you were attempting to make this into a conditional (which it isn’t, here), and then use that to attempt to say something about being “in the flock” (or “in the Church”). Notice that you aren’t doing that (unless, of course, you just baldly assert it, aside from the quote).

 

[Sirach2]

I would like to know the Catholic for “they will never be lost” and NOT for “no one can ever steal them from my hand”.

I believe today’s gospel reading gives some good insight into the concept that after one becomes a ‘sheep,’ eternal life is guaranteed. Not so, according to today’s gospel.
‘Rejoice with me because I have found my** lost sheep**.’
I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people
who have no need of repentance.

Jesus tells us that a sheep can get ‘lost’ and needs to repent. God’s grace seeks out this lost one in order to bring it to repentance and restoration, but as we know, this grace can be rejected. And one who does not believe Catholic teaching in favor of their own interpretation of the verse from John 10 will insist they are correct in their understanding. We all know such hard-line fundamentalists.

They need to read other passages such as today’s verse that says they can become lost, through sin.

If a person has a ticket to board a train to New Jersey and gets on the train going to Cleveland, no matter how much their ticket reads “New Jersey,” where will they wind up? These folks are on the wrong train but insist they will arrive at eternal happiness. If they continue to protest, I believe we can plant the seed of the correct scripture interpretation and just move on, leaving them to their darkness.

 

[guanophore]

And in teaching so, it teaches simply that all salvation comes from Christ, not that it only comes to those who are visibly part of the Church.

Again, there’s the inverse: yes, all in the Church are in Christ; but, that doesn’t logically imply that all who are in Christ are in the Church. Except…

It seems to me that it does. Christ is one with his Church.

... except that you think that you're asserting it here.  Even so, please notice that you're not asserting that they're "in the Church", but rather, that they're "in Christ."  I agree -- you're correct here -- they *are* "in Christ".  However, that's not what you (and Steve) were attempting to prove. Rather, you were attempting to make this into a conditional (which it isn't, here), and then use that to attempt to say something about being "in the flock" (or "in the Church").  Notice that you aren't doing that (unless, of course, you just baldly assert it, aside from the quote).   :shrug:

Actually I was not attempting to “prove” anything.

I was not trying to make any “conditions” . Jesus can save whoever He wants, however He likes.

I also never implied that all saved persons are visible members of the Catholic Church.