Ouija board working a fact?

[carn]

I read this question and answer from catholic.com:
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-ouija-boards-harmless

“The fact of the matter is, the Ouija board really does work”

A quija board, for those who do not know, is a board with letters, numbers and yes/no symbols on it. People using it place a moveable object as marker on it, e.g. an upturned glass, touch it with their fingers very lightly (normally several people touch the obejct from several sides) and call some entities, ghost, demons or whatever the specific goup thiinks they might be able to contact. They then ask questions and the marker moves to spell out the answer or yes/no.

Sometimes also people do not touch it and it still moves.

The point now is that as most of the time someone is touching the marker or at least several people are near the board and the marker and normally relativ dark conditions, one cannot know whether the marker moves through some supernatural effect or whether the participants move it either subconciously by gently pushing it or pushing the board/table or with deliberate deception, e.g. its a magnetic marker and one participant uses a magnet to guide its movements.

Therefore one cannot know, whether the participants realy contact some entities or whether they just fool themselves into thinking they do.

At least thats what i think so far. (And i think its irrelevant, whether i think i contact demons or whether i actually contact demons, both carries dangers.)

The above answer seems to imply that its fact that Quija boards allow contact to demons.

Anyone know how it can be established as a fact?

It seems in the above link, it is considered fact due to testimonies of excorcists. But is there any further evidence?

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Carn,

I am studying demonology and the in ALL of the books that I have read, nothing ever good comes of the Ouija board. I also work with several exorcists as well. In all that time, I have never met a single exorcist that has ever condoned the practice of using the board, in fact they are quick to condemn it. This is telling of itself.

Angels and God do not communicate through the Ouija board.

The testimony of the exorcists is enough for me. As if that was not enough, I have been involved in some occurrences to observe some of the phenonomen that you have mentioned with your post. Quite a few infestations, oppresssions, and possessions somehwere in their history an Ouija board was involved.

Know this, that if it does work it is ONLY through the office of a demon. Know this, that anytime it is used it is a DIRECT violation of the First Commandment and a mortal sin.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[carn]

Thanks for your answer.

I am studying demonology and the in ALL of the books that I have read, nothing ever good comes of the Ouija board.

I do not deny this.

The testimony of the exorcists is enough for me.

Even when ignoring the question, in what ways excorcist might make errors, as far as i understand an excorcists has no intention to exactly analyse and establish which specific part of an action opened the human mind for demonic influence.

E.g. a person uses a board and calls some demon and some not nice situation develops. Was it the board, was it the calling, was it the persons mindset, was it a combination of that, was an unoticed third factor plying a role, e.g. what the person did last week?

I think one could not establish “quija boards work” without knowing answer to that questions. And as i said, i do not think excorcist are interested in verifying which exact components lead to the demonic influence.

Quite a few infestations, oppresssions, and possessions somehwere in their history an Ouija board was involved.

I read some stories online from people claiming to have experienced demonic influence due to board use and in analyzing the thread question the problem is, that so many other things problematic normally happened in such stories, that one cannot decide whether a board and maker made of wood played a role or whether demons actually played a role.

E.g. one story:
6 18-20 years old gathered for a weekend in a lone house in woods. At least one of these had previous suicidal tendencies and another at least tendency to harm herself (supposed author of story). After some 30 hours or so of drinking and drug use with little sleep, one suggest around 2 AM in the morning to use quija board. They experience strange things, author has visions of some demon-like figure, feels attracted to it. Then one person suffers a serious nervous and maybe also circulatory breakdown (gets cold, shivers and is not able to talk). Author attempts suicide without being realy aware of doing it, gets saved. 1 decides to drive the ill person with his motorcycle to hospital and the 2 have a fatal accident. Authors live takes from that point on a “downward turn” (depression, further drug abuse, further visions of the demon-like figure).

Point is, i do not need demons to explain anything there. If one already has a psychological history and then spends a weekend in drug and alcohol abuse with 2 friends ending up dead, its not unusual to develop a serious depression.

Know this, that if it does work it is ONLY through the office of a demon. Know this, that anytime it is used it is a DIRECT violation of the First Commandment and a mortal sin.

So even without calling to any demons, just sitting down with a board and asking a question to no one would be a sin?

 

[Speedypizza]

As somebody who was a pagan for 19 years, I will tell you that Ouija boards do in fact work. I am not even going to go into HOW they work, as to be honest with you, I am not 100% sure to this day. That being said however, I say stay away from them. I never liked them myself not because they did not work, but because the spirits I would call on it tended to lie to me.

TRIVIA FOR THE DAY… What kind of spirits are talked about in the Church that are known to lie a lot?

That also being said, I have known more then a few people who ended up in trouble playing with them. Before my conversion, I would speak and think of them in the same light as a power saw. It can be used for some things, but they are NOT a toy. If you do not know what you are doing, they are more likely then not to hurt you, not help you. Now that I am becoming Catholic, I will say this to anybody who even thinks it might be fun to play with. STAY AWAY from them, DO NOT use them, if you with a group of others who are using one, RUN. There are things out there that you really don’t want to play with.

Evil spirits are very real, and they are not fun to have around. People never think about this for some reason. If a good spirit (angel) will bring feelings of joy, love and peace to you, guess what an evil spirit (demon) brings feelings of? Do you really want to call forth the feelings of horror, sadness and madness to yourself? Please think about this, because it is much easier to bring one forth then it is to get rid of.

Pax

 

[MtnDwellar]

Anyone know how it can be established as a fact?

Neither ouija boards, nor any other paranormal manifestation, can be factually proven in ways that satisfy a scientific community of non-believers; hence, there are still non-believers.

 

[PattiDay]

My opinion is that a Ouija board is just that, a piece of inert wood, or now a piece of cheap particle board. It has no power for good or evil in and of itself. It is the people touching the table that cause it to move. The only time the pointer table will move ‘by itself’’ is if it is sitting on the knees of those playing with the board.

The evil in the ‘game’ is that people may believe they are getting information from beyond, more often from sinister powers than powers for good. It is that person who then looks for other entrys into the occult who can get into trouble spiritually and mentally.

Many people buys these things for their children for a lark. Usually it doesn’t take children long to realize that one or the other of the members playing is directing the outcome of the message and the board is relegated to the toy box or the trash.

 

[Leegal]

I read this question and answer from catholic.com:
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-ouija-boards-harmless

“The fact of the matter is, the Ouija board really does work”

Therefore one cannot know, whether the participants realy contact some entities or whether they just fool themselves into thinking they do.

At least thats what i think so far. (And i think its irrelevant, whether i think i contact demons or whether i actually contact demons, both carries dangers.)

The above answer seems to imply that its fact that Quija boards allow contact to demons.

Anyone know how it can be established as a fact?

It seems in the above link, it is considered fact due to testimonies of excorcists. But is there any further evidence?

Seems to me we don’t need facts. If it may lead to problems, why fool around with it?
That it “may” is enough caution for me not to invite trouble. Besides, the person using it might be susceptible. Even if they are not factually in contact with bad spirits, that they believe so is enough to cause problems.

You don’t need to put your hand in the fire to know it will burn – I’m telling you it will hurt.

I think it violates the Commandment “Thou shall have no other gods before Me.” By it’s use you are acquiesing to a power (whether factually proven or not that the Ouija board has the power to contact spirits) other than to God who is all Good. It’s that silent agreement that the Ouija board has power that is the problem.

 

[Leegal]

Greetings Carn,

I am studying demonology and the in ALL of the books that I have read, nothing ever good comes of the Ouija board. God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Would you recommend one book? I would be interested in finding one with recommendation from someone who knows.

And, yes, I believe it violates the First Commandment. I don’t need convincing, but I’m interested in this topic.

Thank you.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Carn,

My Original quotes are in blue.

Thanks for your answer.

I am glad to be of assistance in any way that I can.

The testimony of the exorcists is enough for me.

I do not deny this.

Even when ignoring the question, in what ways excorcist might make errors, as far as i understand an excorcists has no intention to exactly analyse and establish which specific part of an action opened the human mind for demonic influence.

E.g. a person uses a board and calls some demon and some not nice situation develops. Was it the board, was it the calling, was it the persons mindset, was it a combination of that, was an unoticed third factor plying a role, e.g. what the person did last week?

I think one could not establish “quija boards work” without knowing answer to that questions. And as i said, i do not think excorcist are interested in verifying which exact components lead to the demonic influence.

There are other factors that have to be considered in answering this question. Anytime you invoked something other than God you open yourself up to things other than God. God is light, everything outside of God is darkness.

You also have to factor in God’s permissive will in this as well. There are a number of factors that have to be weighed in. There is no simple answer. But this I know for certain. The Ouiji board does not work by itself, it is always by the demonic that it “works.”

And actually exorcists are very interested in what are components that have led to the possession. It is necessary for the possessed to renounce past rituals that they may have done, and other things of this nature.

I read some stories online from people claiming to have experienced demonic influence due to board use and in analyzing the thread question the problem is, that so many other things problematic normally happened in such stories, that one cannot decide whether a board and maker made of wood played a role or whether demons actually played a role.

You have to understand, it is not the board that works by itself.

E.g. one story:
6 18-20 years old gathered for a weekend in a lone house in woods. At least one of these had previous suicidal tendencies and another at least tendency to harm herself (supposed author of story). After some 30 hours or so of drinking and drug use with little sleep, one suggest around 2 AM in the morning to use quija board. They experience strange things, author has visions of some demon-like figure, feels attracted to it. Then one person suffers a serious nervous and maybe also circulatory breakdown (gets cold, shivers and is not able to talk). Author attempts suicide without being realy aware of doing it, gets saved. 1 decides to drive the ill person with his motorcycle to hospital and the 2 have a fatal accident. Authors live takes from that point on a “downward turn” (depression, further drug abuse, further visions of the demon-like figure).

Point is, i do not need demons to explain anything there. If one already has a psychological history and then spends a weekend in drug and alcohol abuse with 2 friends ending up dead, its not unusual to develop a serious depression.

There are cases of possession that the possessed are possessed and have mental illnesses at the same time. Mental illness and possession are not mutually exclusive.

So even without calling to any demons, just sitting down with a board and asking a question to no one would be a sin?

Yes. Why would you sit down to the board? Why do you need to get answers from it? If you fully trusted in God and had Faith in His Divine Providence you would not even think to look outside of Him for answers.

My answers are short and simple. These are very complex things to write of and I apologize for I am ill today and have been the last few days.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

My opinion is that a Ouija board is just that, a piece of inert wood, or now a piece of cheap particle board. It has no power for good or evil in and of itself. It is the people touching the table that cause it to move. The only time the pointer table will move ‘by itself’’ is if it is sitting on the knees of those playing with the board.

The evil in the ‘game’ is that people may believe they are getting information from beyond, more often from sinister powers than powers for good. It is that person who then looks for other entrys into the occult who can get into trouble spiritually and mentally.

Many people buys these things for their children for a lark. Usually it doesn’t take children long to realize that one or the other of the members playing is directing the outcome of the message and the board is relegated to the toy box or the trash.

Greetings PattiDay,

You are right the board indeed does not have power to do anything of itself. At other times it is used by those that are manipulating the planchette. I’d agree with you there.

However I would differ that there are other causes for the board to “work.” And those causes are demons.

The Oiuja board is an entry into the occult.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Seems to me we don’t need facts. If it may lead to problems, why fool around with it?
That it “may” is enough caution for me not to invite trouble. Besides, the person using it might be susceptible. Even if they are not factually in contact with bad spirits, that they believe so is enough to cause problems.

You don’t need to put your hand in the fire to know it will burn – I’m telling you it will hurt.

I think it violates the Commandment “Thou shall have no other gods before Me.” By it’s use you are acquiesing to a power (whether factually proven or not that the Ouija board has the power to contact spirits) other than to God who is all Good. It’s that silent agreement that the Ouija board has power that is the problem.

Greetings Leegal,

You are right it does violate the first command for the reason you give.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Would you recommend one book? I would be interested in finding one with recommendation from someone who knows.

And, yes, I believe it violates the First Commandment. I don’t need convincing, but I’m interested in this topic.

Thank you.

Greetings Leegal,

There is a book that I would recommend to those who are interested in this above all the others, to read first. He is solid in Catholic teaching.

Interview with an exorcist by Father Jose Antonio Fortea.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Leegal]

Greetings Leegal,

There is a book that I would recommend to those who are interested in this above all the others, to read first. He is solid in Catholic teaching.

Interview with an exorcist by Father Jose Antonio Fortea.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Thank you; I have ordered a copy.

God Bless.

 

[SalesianSDB]

I never touched a Ouija board, or even seen one in person. When I was in middle school we would have a guy come talk to us once a week after school on different religious topics. When someone asked about Ouija boards his response was, “It’s like getting a bullhorn and yelling out, ‘Calling all demons!’” He even said it could be Satan himself. The way he said it, it’s playing with fire.

In high school my freshman year my theology teacher, a wonderful Salesian sister, told us not to touch it, it is a sin to play it. She told us a story of when she was young her sister and her friend were using a Ouija board at her house. She complained to her sister so much that her sister took the board outside.

At a retreat in my high school before we went to sleep two guys told us about their experience using a Ouija board and the spirit they contacted named “Ron.” When they asked the spirit if he was good or bad he said, “Goodbye.” That freaked us out. Ever since then, whenever that retreat was put on, us guys would tell that story and try to freak out the male participants at night…every year there’s a few people who get genuinely freaked out. Not to mention, we had some odd experiences at night after the telling of that story.

Coming from an area with a small Santeria community (a mix of Catholicism and African religions that originated when African slaves were brought to Cuba), our motto is, “We may not believe it, but we don’t play around with it.”

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Even Wiccans know it’s a terrible idea to use Ouija boards,* even Wiccans*

 

[Jaypeeto4]

PLEASE,
STAY AWAY from the Ouija Board.
It is marketed as the Mystifying Oracle, and sold by Parker Brothers,
but contrary to secular opinion, it is NOT a mere game.
A board and a wooden or plastic planchette, cannot move by itself.
Sometimes the “players” are pushing the planchette.
But those into the occult know that this is not usually the case.
It is an opening for demonic activity, as you are asking unknown forces
other than Jesus Christ and his Church for hidden information.
It isn’t also known as the “Witch Board” for nothing.
If you mess with Ouija Boards, you are playing with Fire. Don’t do that. Don’t.
If you have one, break the thing and throw it out.
Then have a priest bless your house.
Love to you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
PRAY THE ROSARY DAILY

 

[nonsumd]

The Ouija board is a Nonnein!

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

The Ouija Board HAS been known to work.

Does NOT mean you need to use it. It is indeed against Church teaching and a portal to Hell and Demonic Entities.

Don’t do it, please.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Even if the Board has a Parker-Brothers Logo on it?

PArker-Brothers = instruments of Satan?

 

[carn]

Neither ouija boards, nor any other paranormal manifestation, can be factually proven in ways that satisfy a scientific community of non-believers; hence, there are still non-believers.

Ok, then it seems the issue is about what is a “fact”.
I consider things fact, if they can be proven in ways that satisfy a scientific community of non-believers or anyone else willing to look at evidence. (Note that it is not the other way round, things a scientific community of non-believers considers to be proven by evidence is not always a fact. But if something is considered a fact, prove should be possible.)

So it seems that in the linked question/answer fact is used differently.

@regarding using a board

I do not intend to use a board. But i try to make sense of a few things and one of them is that if magic/spirits/demons/other supernatural things exist, there must be a reason why so far no one collected a million bucks. randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

If quija boards work in the sense that through some procedure a supernatural movement of the marker would result, one would get 1 million or slightly more. That a catholic would not do it, is obvious. But if the occult followers simply think it to be a tool of power, then they have no reason not to get 1 million - demons would certainly not mind their followers being greedy. And they would not need to disclose their “knowledge” about this power, as the people offering the challenge do not care, what your ideas behind your claim are. They would be satisfied with a marker reliably moving without trickery.

And, while i did not have contact with boards, i had contact with some people, who were convinced about the existance and possibility to contact ghosts. But whenever i got curious and suggested to make some test verifying the existance of their ghost contact, the ghost seemed to run away and it was not possible.

(Of course this question applies to all other supposed supernatural activity.)