Our existence in heaven

[Snerticus]

This was brought up on another thread, however I’d like to hear from others, specifically those who are learned in the faith, and most especially Oscarthecat about how we exist in heaven immediately after death and until the general resurrection. I obviously don’t claim to be an expert and I may have ideas wrong but I always assumed that until the general resurrection, we exist as spiritual beings after death. And when the general resurrection happens, we will be re-united with our bodies.

Obviously I am in error. Can anyone clarify this for me. Please be kind and use a layman’s terms in explaining this.

Also, as an aside, since the angels once had free will, did they always exist as purely spiritual beings or did they take another form? I realize this will be more of a speculative answer, but I’m curious as to what others think.

Thanks and God Bless,
Snert

 

[davidv]

This was brought up on another thread, however I’d like to hear from others, specifically those who are learned in the faith, and most especially Oscarthecat about how we exist in heaven immediately after death and until the general resurrection. I obviously don’t claim to be an expert and I may have ideas wrong but I always assumed that until the general resurrection, we exist as spiritual beings after death. And when the general resurrection happens, we will be re-united with our bodies.

Obviously I am in error. Can anyone clarify this for me. Please be kind and use a layman’s terms in explaining this.

Also, as an aside, since the angels once had free will, did they always exist as purely spiritual beings or did they take another form? I realize this will be more of a speculative answer, but I’m curious as to what others think.

Thanks and God Bless,
Snert

Based on my understanding of the Catechism’s teachings on particular judgement, heaven and final judgement, I agree with your understanding. Between our death and the final judgement our bodies return to dust. Our soul, if heaven bound, goes there proir to the final judgement, at which time it is reunited with its body.

 

[Katholish]

Snert,

The angels always existed as spiritual substances. Given their nature, it wouldn’t be possible to have been anything else.

As to the main discussion, after death, our souls are separated from our bodies and continue to exist in this incomplete state until we are reunited with our bodies. The soul, after all, is the form of a particular body, and it is not proper for the soul to exist without that body even though it is capable of doing so. Thus, there is a real sense in which we will be “incomplete” during this time. I don’t know why you say that you are obviously in error (unless you have taken the concept of existing as spiritual beings to mean that we change nature).

There are many things which we do not know about this state of existence. For instance, as human beings we learn and gather information from our senses, but our senses from from the body, hence, how will we know anything in Heaven? St. Thomas Aquinas has fun with questions like these, and if you are interested, there are several articles in the Summa Theologica that deal with this and similar questions.

 

[Snerticus]

LOL, I have never read St. Thomas Aquinas, although I think I would thoroughly enjoy reading his writings - from what others have said also.

I think I am beginning to understand this a bit better…

That is, unless someone throws a wrench in it somewhere…

 

[JPUSC]

Since God is timeless, then wouldn’t the final judgement not be part of our timeline?

Wouldn’t it be possible that the final judgement already occured to the people currently in heaven?

 

[Snerticus]

From what I understand, the final judgement is to occur at Christ’s second coming.

From the CCC:

1001 When? Definitively “at the last day,” “at the end of the world.” Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[JPUSC]

From what I understand, the final judgement is to occur at Christ’s second coming.

From the CCC:

So since God exists at the time of the second coming…did it already happen?

 

[Snerticus]

I you are God it did! … or rather, is now happening…

 

[Katholish]

So since God exists at the time of the second coming…did it already happen?

God has certainly already willed and “done” everything involved. Being outside of time, His acts are simple. Time, however, is still a real thing and we are subject to it. The General Judgment will be done all at the same time (for it is an act done within a certain point in time), so it would be incorrect to say that it has already happened for some, but not for others.

 

[redhen]

I’m having a problem trying to understand the general resurrection. As I understand it, this is when we will be reunited with our physical bodies. However, what are the consequences of this concept? I mean, if this entails the re-incorporation of all our individual molecules and atoms, it would mean annihilation of many other objects (some living) in the natural world.
How is the general resurrection possible without the destruction of the planet earth?

I find this ancient Hebrew concept very difficult to swallow. It sounds like mere wishful thinking.

Thanks

 

[Snerticus]

I’m having a problem trying to understand the general resurrection. As I understand it, this is when we will be reunited with our physical bodies. However, what are the consequences of this concept? I mean, if this entails the re-incorporation of all our individual molecules and atoms, it would mean annihilation of many other objects (some living) in the natural world.
How is the general resurrection possible without the destruction of the planet earth?

I find this ancient Hebrew concept very difficult to swallow. It sounds like mere wishful thinking.

Thanks

It is very difficult to understand. I’m just having trouble understanding the concept myself. Perhaps it has something to do with the New Heaven and New Earth. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps God is creating in an alternate universe a New Earth for us to inhabit?

I just don’t’ know enough about it to comment further on what I just mentioned.

 

[rotlex]

I’m having a problem trying to understand the general resurrection. As I understand it, this is when we will be reunited with our physical bodies. However, what are the consequences of this concept? I mean, if this entails the re-incorporation of all our individual molecules and atoms, it would mean annihilation of many other objects (some living) in the natural world.
How is the general resurrection possible without the destruction of the planet earth?

I find this ancient Hebrew concept very difficult to swallow. It sounds like mere wishful thinking.

Thanks

I struggle with this as well, and frankly, also lean toward the side of wishful thinking on this. I realize that God is all powerful, capable of anything, but, to think that the absolute millions of dead bodies in this world, many of which have now been turned to not much more than compost, will eventually be put back together and reunited with the soul, is very, very difficult to comprehend. While on the other hand, I can relate much more easily to living as a “spirit”, “angelic like being” etc.