Our Father vs. The Lord's Prayer

[pritchard85]

Catholics say the Lord’s Prayer just as the Lord Himself taught it to His Apostles. The words “For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever” were a marginal gloss. That means that these words were written in the margin of the manuscript used to translate the KJV, and a translator mistakenly added them to the ending of the Lord’s Prayer at Matthew 6:13. They were printed in the original KJV and were copied over and over in later editions. Protestants have been saying this prayer – putting words in the Lord’s mouth that he didn’t say – since 1611 when the first KJV was published. The Lord’s Prayer is also in Luke 11:2-4 in a different form. These words were not added in Luke as they were in Matthew.

The words are from 1 Chronicles 29:11 and were used as a doxology (short prayer of praise) in the Greek Mass of the early Church. They are found in the Didache, which means “Teaching.” The full name of the book is the “Teaching of the Twelve Apostles.” The “Didache” was used by the Church for the instruction of adult pagan converts in the first century.

Here’s an excerpt from the Didache: "Remember, O Lord, Thy Church, deliver her from all evil, perfect her in Thy love, and from the four winds assemble her, the sanctified, in Thy kingdom which Thou hast prepared for her, For Thine is the power and the glory for evermore."This doxology was repeated several times at different intervals in the Greek Mass. (excerpt is from Ancient Christian Writers, The Didache, Volume 6, page 21)

I heard it often as I was growing up Southern Baptist: “Catholics removed the ending of the Lord’s Prayer. There is no limit to their arrogant, evil ways.” Of course, we also accused Catholics of “adding extra books to the Bible” when, in actuality, Protestants removed them. :whacky:

Jim Dandy

Baloney.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

pritchard85 wrote:

For thine is the Kingdom etc. comes from the OT. Very Biblical.

Yes, again, it’s from 2 Chronicles 29:11. But adding it to the Our Father (the Lord’s Prayer) in Mt 6:13 is one of the many errors in the 1611 KJV.

Baloney.

To which part of my post does your opinion refer?

Jim Dandy

 

[pritchard85]

pritchard85 wrote:

Yes, again, it’s from 2 Chronicles 29:11. But adding it to the Our Father (the Lord’s Prayer) in Mt 6:13 is one of the many errors in the 1611 KJV.

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

We use Divine Service 3, once a month ( which is my favorite ) and in that service " for thine is the kingdom" is sung harking back to Luther’s Small Catechism. I do not like Divine Service 1,2, and 4.

And I don’t like Divine Service 2- Setting 2, which is just ridiculous…

C’mon now! How many Catholics know the intricacies of the LSB? If they do, free hot-dish and jello for them

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

Wish we used that setting more. It is beautiful.

Jon

I am finding that I like Setting 3 more and more. I wished it was used more often. Of course, I do like sneaking in some of the pre-Communion coughEucharisticcough prayers from the other settings

 

[JonNC]

I am finding that I like Setting 3 more and more. I wished it was used more often. Of course, I do like sneaking in some of the pre-Communion coughEucharisticcough prayers from the other settings

Are you being truthful, or just trying to draw me out of the Eucharistic prayer closet?

Jon

 

[Jim_Dandy]

pritchard85 wrote:

Who says and why?

Um, biblical scholars say, because it was a marginal gloss and not part of the text. But I said that in my post. Did you read my post? Did you read the Didache? I gave the citation from Ancient Christian Writers. Here’s another example:

QUOTE

Paragraph 9: Regarding the Eucharist. Give thanks as follows:
2. First concerning the cup:

We give Thee thanks, Our Father,
for the Holy Vine of David Thy servant,
which Thou hast made known to us
through Jesus, Thy Servant.
To Thee be the glory for evermore.

1. Next, concerning the broken bread:
   We give Thee thanks, Our Father,
   for the life and knowledge
   which Thou hast made known to us
   through Jesus, Thy Servant.
   To Thee be the glory for evermore.
2. As this broken bread was scattered over the hills
   and then, when gathered, became one mass,
   so may Thy Church be gathered
   from the ends of the earth into Thy Kingdom.
   For Thine is the glory and the power
   through Jesus Christ for evermore.

The entire condescending tone of it toward Protestants.

I’m sorry you find my experiences as a Protestant disturbing. They were very disturbing to me as well.

Thank you for your replies to my questions.

Jim Dandy

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

Are you being truthful, or just trying to draw me out of the Eucharistic prayer closet?

Jon

Perhaps both

 

[JonNC]

Perhaps both

To quote Gizmo, “Bright light, Bright light!”

Jon