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adrian1
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Why isn’t possible repentance after death? What will happen with free will and ability toate choose?
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fhansen
Guest
In real basic terms, our wills our oriented properly enough, but without perfect rectitude, if we’re still distracted enough by sin rather than attracted to God first above all else such that we must enter purgatory for a period of time. There, after death, I believe our wills are patiently and finally brought into alignment with God’s will; that’s what the final purification entails, a bit more molding and refinement needs to be completed until we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And that’s the very purpose of our lives here on earth to begin with, to come to learn what Adam missed, with the help of revelation/ knowledge, grace, and time, of the incomparable wisdom and goodness of God so that we may turn, and begin to will in agreement with Him. Until then our hearts aren’t pure enough to see Him, until then we probably aren’t even capable of seeing Him because we aren’t quite completely sold out, we’re not sure that we want to see Him, still possessing a degree of preference for lesser, created things as it were.
Once we are sold out and enter heaven, our wills have found their true intended target; we desire nothing else because nothing comes even close to the goodness we encounter when we then see God “face to face”.
And that’s the very purpose of our lives here on earth to begin with, to come to learn what Adam missed, with the help of revelation/ knowledge, grace, and time, of the incomparable wisdom and goodness of God so that we may turn, and begin to will in agreement with Him. Until then our hearts aren’t pure enough to see Him, until then we probably aren’t even capable of seeing Him because we aren’t quite completely sold out, we’re not sure that we want to see Him, still possessing a degree of preference for lesser, created things as it were.
Once we are sold out and enter heaven, our wills have found their true intended target; we desire nothing else because nothing comes even close to the goodness we encounter when we then see God “face to face”.
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Robert_Sock
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According to the Jewish Chabad teachings, everyone will be saved after a maximum one year in Purgatory. After that, our evil inclination will have been purified and our will will be in perfect accord with God. I’m Catholic, but I’m rooting that these Jewish teachings are true!
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KevinK
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The why do people pray for “time” in purgatory to be reduced?
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KevinK
Guest
Was the Church previously wrong about this? What is your evidence that time ceases to exist after death?
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steve-b
Guest
Repentance happens on this side of eternity. Then judgement. Once judged, that’s permanent.
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steve-b
Guest
Fr Alessio took care of Padre Pio during his last years on earth. He told a story about a sacristan who died some 70 years prior to Padre Pio saying mass this particular day. The Sacristan being in purgatory since his death, came to Pio asking Pio to say mass for him and he could go to heaven that day… The sacristan had no way to understand time since there is no time in eternity. But obviously, God thought the sacristan’s time in purgatory was over and all that God required was a mass to be said for the sacristan and that it was Padre Pio’s mass to do it. Padre Pio offered mass that day for the sacristan. I was at San Giovanni Rotondo to hear Fr Alessio tell that story.Brittany:
Was the Church previously wrong about this? What is your evidence that time ceases to exist after death?
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Arkansan
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The human will naturally seeks after an end (as in goal). For those in God’s friendship He is the end, for those who are not their self-chosen end is some created good.
While we are alive, we reason discursively and can be influenced to change the end we are seeking. But once we die, this is no longer the case, so there is nothing which could persuade us to change our ultimate disposition.
This has nothing to do with time. The notion of aveternity is applicable only to Heaven. The damned experience time, their condition is called eternal only because it never ends.
While we are alive, we reason discursively and can be influenced to change the end we are seeking. But once we die, this is no longer the case, so there is nothing which could persuade us to change our ultimate disposition.
This has nothing to do with time. The notion of aveternity is applicable only to Heaven. The damned experience time, their condition is called eternal only because it never ends.
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RichardsPlanet
Guest
We have little revelation what happens after death - some main points, but little detail. Jewish, Orthodox, and Catholic agree on this and warn of speculation.
Jewish mishna hagiga 11b:
We believe the dead can intercede for us through prayer. This suggests a capacity for action – perhaps limited to prayer – after death. Opening the possibility that souls have free will. The Catechism of the Church says this:
Free will as “the capacity to seek God”, can only be done while we are alive. After death, there is no need to seek God since God will be absolutely evident. Therefore, “free will” does not exist after death. Imagine writing an exam: you can write during the exam, after the exam is over, the answers are revealed and you cannot change what you have written.
If free will is “the capacity to act of our own volition”, then it seems to continue after death, since the saints are able to intercede – at least in prayer (and one may argue that prayer is Christian life).
This can lead into discussion on what exactly prayer is, but I will just quote a line from the Catechism:
Jewish mishna hagiga 11b:
1980 Synod Orthodox Russian Church:
Council of Trent on Purgatory:
We believe a soul’s fate is sealed at the time of death. The essential idea being that it is not possible to sin without the body.
We believe the dead can intercede for us through prayer. This suggests a capacity for action – perhaps limited to prayer – after death. Opening the possibility that souls have free will. The Catechism of the Church says this:
This seems to hint that “free will” and “intellect” are distinct and separate from “soul”
Free will as “the capacity to seek God”, can only be done while we are alive. After death, there is no need to seek God since God will be absolutely evident. Therefore, “free will” does not exist after death. Imagine writing an exam: you can write during the exam, after the exam is over, the answers are revealed and you cannot change what you have written.
If free will is “the capacity to act of our own volition”, then it seems to continue after death, since the saints are able to intercede – at least in prayer (and one may argue that prayer is Christian life).
This can lead into discussion on what exactly prayer is, but I will just quote a line from the Catechism:
Whatever your thoughts, it is wise to recall:
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TK421
Guest
As creatures here on Earth, we have an extremely imperfect understanding of God and supernatural things.
But once the veil is lifted, our knowledge & understanding is so elevated that there is no longer any room for further mind-changing. It’s like playing tic-tac-toe, where it becomes simple enough that you know the basic pattern to follow every time and the game no longer has any meaning except for children.
The damned have a kind of intellectual knowledge that they are evil but there is no authentic contrition with it. It’s like somebody who gets caught doing something evil / illegal after so many years. They might be sorry, or they might simply be sorry that they were caught. The damned fall under the 2nd category.
Or another analogy: a parent disciplines her kids, but she also shows restraint and understanding because they are immature and inexperienced, but as they get older and wiser, more starts to be expected from them, and it’s no longer excusable for them to do certain things at 16 as it was when they were 4. Once we pass on and the veil is lifted, we have an understanding of God and spiritual things that makes our adulthood on Earth seem like we were less than infants in comparison. So if an ungrateful soul rejects God, like some of the angels did, there’s no room left for repentance. They’ll never repent because there’s nothing that will ever change their mind because they already understand everything they need to know.
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mythbuster1
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“Whover blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, in this life or the next.” It is impossible for them to repent because they have adamantly rejected the grace needed for repentance.
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adrian1
Guest
Nice answer. More datails about paragraph 2, link
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