Our Souls - Jehovah Witnesses

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I am discussions with a friend who is a JW and as a JW she doesn’t believe that we have souls. So when we die our bodies die but not our souls. They beliefs come straight from the Bible. So how can I show (prove) to her that God has given us our Souls and what happens to them when we die. Are there Bible verses I can go to?
Thanks.
 
kitafraya said:
I am discussions with a friend who is a JW and as a JW she doesn’t believe that we have souls. So when we die our bodies die but not our souls. They beliefs come straight from the Bible. So how can I show (prove) to her that God has given us our Souls and what happens to them when we die. Are there Bible verses I can go to?
Thanks.
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There is a death of the soul when there is lack of sanctifying grace, yet the soul is immortal.

The Old Testament references to the soul must be understood in context with the New Testament. In the Old Testament four words are used to indicate the whole person, such a body, soul, heart, and spirit – that is – the life of the body or the inner life of the person. Humans live only once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). Notice that Moses and Elijah are alive at the Transfiguration so are immortal (Matthew 17:3). In the New Testament is taught that believers who have died currently experience unsurpassable joy (Philippians 1:23) or the unjustified currently experience torment. (Luke 16:22, 23; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation19:20.)
 
I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate. As I recall from my time (long ago) in the JWs, they didn’t believe in an eternal soul. In other words, the soul died with the body, but God keeps a record in the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5), and upon the Resurrection, I guess, essentially, the body and the soul are resurrected.
 
While I wasn’t a JW, I did belong to a group that also rejected the immortal soul. The belief is that we don’t have a soul, we are a soul. When we die, we go into “soul sleep”. There is no consciousness until we are resurrected with our bodies. This goes hand in hand with the idea that there is no hell. The damned do not continue to exist in eternal punishment but are extinguished completely.

One verse you can go to is Revelation 6:9-10, “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?’”

We see that the souls in heaven have consciousness, understand where they are, and can communicate. Souls asleep cannot do this.

Here’s a Catholic Answers resource: How do we refute the "soul sleep" argument? | Catholic Answers
 
Vico said:
The Old Testament references to the soul must be understood in context with the New Testament. In the Old Testament four words are used to indicate the whole person, such a body, soul, heart, and spirit – that is – the life of the body or the inner life of the person. Humans live only once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). Notice that Moses and Elijah are alive at the Transfiguration so are immortal (Matthew 17:3). In the New Testament is taught that believers who have died currently experience unsurpassable joy (Philippians 1:23) or the unjustified currently experience torment. (Luke 16:22, 23; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation19:20.)
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And, to continue that thought, one of the “proof texts” they use to deny the immortal soul is Ezekiel 18:4 (“Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die”) (Catholic version).

But if you look at the whole chapter, it’s talking about individual retribution. The Lord is saying that in the past, the son was punished for the father’s deeds, but now only “the soul that sins shall die” (i.e., only the person who sins will be punished).
 
What is their claim then? So when the body dies, it goes straight to heaven? How can this be when the body is bones in the grave?

Read part 362-368 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (link below), then look at the footnotes which reference Scripture.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p6.htm

Here is just one verse of many:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Ecclesiastes 12:7 says: "and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
I was a JW once. And what the witnesses teach about a soul is that it is the life of a person, a person is a soul. Some will go as far as saying the soul of a person is their blood because of a verse that says the life of an animal is in their blood. But clearly from the text above, and from the other posts in this, the soul is immortal and immaterial. When St. Paul says to die is to be at home with the Lord, he clearly believes in a soul that goes on after the body dies.
A big misconception they have as well is their definition of death. We as Catholics would view death the separation of body and soul. They view death as merely atheistic, the cessation of bodily function. We say that the body functions because it is united with the soul, and ceases to function because it is separated from the body. So to explain the soul to a JW, one has to show the error of their view of death as well.

God Bless
 
Not to mention that their bible was translated by someone with ~1 semester of Greek.
 
Sorry I posted the question then went dark. Work world took over. From what my friend tells me they don’t believe we have a soul. The soul is the same as referencing a person (like when a pilot references there are 250 souls on board vs saying 250 people),

To answer the other question the JW believe when we die no we don’t go to heaven we just die and are buried. We are done there is nothing more until the second coming when we are resurrected. Our bodies then will be resurrected.

As a cradle Catholic I was taught that we are a body and a soul. But I am having a hard time trying to explain this as JW’s go by only what is in the Bible and nothing else, I am trying to fine in our teaching where we teach about souls,

Oh I also want to be nice about it when I talk to her about it as she is my friend. She happens to be my best friend. I just want to be able to talk intelligently about it not just say because this is what we believe I want to be able to say this is why we believe it…even if it isn’t in the Bible. I know not everything we believe comes from the Bible we have tradition and Tradition.

I am finding more and more that I believe things because that was what I was taught but now that I am older I want to know why. Not that I questioning it but I want to be able to explain to others WHY we believe what we believe not just because. My JW friend can explain very well with out hesitation why she believes what she believes and I want to be able to do that as well. There are certain subjects that I can this one I am having trouble with.

Sorry for the long post and THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help!!
 
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I would first say that what JW’s believe aren’t in the Bible. They twist Scripture and use a faulty translation. They use “proof-text”, or lone verses out of context to try and prove a doctrine. Don’t fall for it.
Second, the soul is easy to prove with one verse: Matt 10:28 -And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Clearly Jesus taught that there was a distinction with the soul and the body. He taught that we have no need to fear those who can only kill the body. If the JW’s are right, then Jesus lied here, for if the soul is just the person, then when someone kills the person they kill the soul. But Jesus said they cannot and in fact implies then that the body is dead but the soul isn’t, showing that the soul lives on after the body dies. Again, don’t take the JW jumping from verse to verse as truth. In reality, they really don’t know what they are talking about, and have the Church and her two thousand years of history and study to rely on.

God Bless
 
kitafraya said:
To answer the other question when we die no we don’t go to heaven we just die and are buried. We are done there is nothing more until the second coming when we are resurrected. Our bodies then will be resurrected.
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Is this what you believe or are you just repeating what a JW believes? If it is what you believe then that is incorrect. St. Paul said: “For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” Again disproving them.
 
SeekerOfTruth7 - I was repeating what the JW believes!! NO that is NOT what I believe!!

I believe what the Catholic Church teaches 100%
 
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Okay just making sure, the wording sounded like you believe that. My apologies!

God Bless
 
St. Paul said: “For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” Where is this from?
 
I found a quote in the book of Wisdom that I want to share with my JW friend but their Bible doesn’t include the book of Wisdom? I want to use Wisdo 15:11 because he failed to know the one who formed himand inspired him with an active souland breathed into him a living spirit.

So how does one share a bible verse when the book doesn’t exist in their bible?
 
You might share how the bible came to be and how the bible had 73 books (or more) in it since the 4th century and the who’s who that helped this come to past.

Anyone without an open mind will not want to discuss this topic.

Peace!!!
 
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