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SedesDomi
Guest
OK, but that begs the question: is the distant, 2D surface *another *“hologram” of a 1D line??
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davidv
Guest
Who is projecting the hologram?
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emill311
Guest
I’m by no means a physicist, and frankly some of the theories they discuss make my head hurt. But, using the CC hologram analogy, if someone was living in (on?) that hologram would they be able to move in 3 dimensions? Or would it merely be an illusion that they could do so? I don’t get it
I may have to wrap my head in duct tape to follow this discussion to prevent it from exploding
I may have to wrap my head in duct tape to follow this discussion to prevent it from exploding
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Dameedna
Guest
It would be an illusion. What is real and what we see and feel are often two very different things.
When we percieve solid matter, this is because certain “information” is being Fed into our brain so that we can make sense of the world around is. We percieve everything in 3 dimensions.
I’ve read the hologram theory, and I don’t think it actually holds a great deal of weight at the moment, as it’s only very rarely discussed.
But it’s interesting. Everything around us is energy. Even primary particles seem to appear to exist in 2 places at once(sort of), and then become actual only when observed.(sort of)
What’s really fascinating about our perceptions, is that humans have the capcity to “see” using other senses. In a rudamentary way, humans have been able to 'see" using their skin(with a large machine that places hundreds of electrode on a persons skin). The (name removed by moderator)ut device required for sight, becomes the sense of touch, but the “brain” still deciphers that incoming information in the same way as it does when the eye’s provide that information. Allowing some-one to see, with their skin.
It boggles the mind because everything we understand and observe about our world around is, is in many way’s an illusion and doesn’t reflect the underlying law’s of nature at all.
Mind-bending stuff. Fun to read about. But I can tell you this…when I stub my toe…if feels very real to me!!!
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Even if it is, does that matter ? It’s real to us, & its alleged hologrammatic character does not have any practical effects on us. In a world or universe composed entirely of holograms, holograms would not exist - they would be that world’s reality, so they would be completely unremarkable. http://smilies.vidahost.com/ups/kamikaze/stickflip.gif
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Detales
Guest
Two readings that might help here are: Wholeness and the Implicate Order by David Bohm, and *The Holographic Universe *by Michale Talbot.
As near as I can tell, one of the most ancient sytems esentially says that the visible universe (which takes at least eleven dimensions to describe, not to mention the one observing those,) is the AMing activity of the God. So it, the Universe as we see it would be a second phase of the trinity of Being. That goes with the idea that the human is potentially the awareness of God awake in His own Creation. It is a very subtle system of understanding, but makes a remarkable case for a way of reading the Bible from an entirely different perspective. It also explains the mythology of… Well, it explains just about everything, as far as I can tell.
As near as I can tell, one of the most ancient sytems esentially says that the visible universe (which takes at least eleven dimensions to describe, not to mention the one observing those,) is the AMing activity of the God. So it, the Universe as we see it would be a second phase of the trinity of Being. That goes with the idea that the human is potentially the awareness of God awake in His own Creation. It is a very subtle system of understanding, but makes a remarkable case for a way of reading the Bible from an entirely different perspective. It also explains the mythology of… Well, it explains just about everything, as far as I can tell.
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Dameedna
Guest
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Detales
Guest
Aldous Huxley called it the Perennial Philosophy. It is also called Non-dualism, Monism, The path of ultimate responsibility, and number of other names. It is, as far as I can tell, the essence of the most ancient of mystery religions. Huxley called it “perennial,” I believe, because it is the one system that has spontaneously appeared as a matter of individaul realization throughout the ages regardless of time. place, or conditions. It is, like Love, a Universal solvent for the different systems of religious and philosophical thought, and is the most alligned as well with what little we know of physics. It is the key to an entirely refreshed and revitalized reading of the Bible and an unshakeble ground for practical morality. And because it is so funamentally and simply profound, it is the most misunderstood and maligned perspective going. It is not solely faith or intellect based, That is why it is usually given as a hidden teaching and offered in parables. That protects the innocent and yet guides the wise who have ears attuned by the fire of desire to know. Yet, my contention is, if we ever grow up *as a race *to be older emotionally than two years old, it will be the system of common and implicit understanding of who and what we actually in Essence are. Think about it. Of all the people who read that post, you alone asked.
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Dameedna
Guest
That sounds like a dare
So you know any good books or websites, or any way I can find some information on it that doesn’t share with me my supposed daily “ball of gas” prediction, like most philosophy/religious websites try and do?
Cheers
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Detales
Guest
A dare is in the mind of the beholder, lol!
I’m not sure that I understand what you mean by your “daily ‘ball of gas’ theory.” Also, you are asking for the titles of a large part of my library. I will give you a short list here, but the two mentioned in my earlier post deal with it on a more scientific basis. The ones following are more from an experiential basis, which I feel is the most productive, because it assumes the necessity of your essential unity with the Source of your questioning, i.e. your own holographic nature.
First, and to me, most basic: the unfortunately and misleadingly titled Insights for the Age of Aquarius by Gina Cerminara. It is, though incomplete in some respects, by far the most useful handbook for religious sanity I have ever encountered.
Next, websites, as they will be most imediately convenient for you: All of this comes with the following caveat: “The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings, for it destroys the world in which you live.” Of course this refers, in the same way as Armaggedon might, to an inner transformation that leaves the world as it is, but puts one’s understanding of it on a profoundly different footing. I can vouch for the overturning nature of that experience, and would not take it lightly. For most it would be best to stick with the two books already mentioned.
www.merell-wolff.org ~ a remarkable chronical and exegisis of transformation in Conscious Awareness, that being the essence of understanding through the ages of the holographic universe.
www.netinetifilms.com ~ Get the book, the website has been userped by follower, albeit a good intentioned one
www.gangaji.org ~ A wonderful woman in the tradition of Shankara and Ramana Maharshi
www.thework.com ~ Currently doing work with the most practical method of self inquiry I’ve found.
www.kgmfoundation.org ~ My own Mentor’s site, last only because he appeals to few due to the very lyrical and musically structured nature of his lectures. My comment? As wonderful as they were, you had to be there. But there are a couple of short clips worth watching, at the very least.
Books:
Pathways Through to Space & *The Philosophy of Consciousness Without and Object *both by F. Merrell-Wolff ~ Again, a remarkble chronicle and exegisis.
I AM THAT by Nisaragadatta
A Thousand Names for Joy by Byron Katie ~ This is a commentary on the I-Ching and is a remarkable uplifting insight of how someone who is consciously living as the understanding of the holographic universe thinks, or better, uses thought.
Anything by Kenneth G. Mills
*The Pagan Christ *& *Water into Wine *both by Tom Harpur ~ Dealing with the historization and literalization of the holographic understanding into christianist teachings, written with a view to the revitalization of a Christianity in the death grip of literalism.
All of the books by Carlos Castaneda that chronicle his experiences with Don Juan Matus. But first understand the others. Teachers, even Jesus, have usually given this explication through local cultural symbols to protect the innocent. E.g. parables, or what the system that has developed into the Pachamama alliance uses: the eagle and the condor as two phases of knowledge and experience. Most people on here, by that system’s catagorization, are strictly eagle minded, or materialistic in the sense of spiritual materialism, or dogmatism. Anyway, I’m starting a book here in a sub-catagory, lol!, so I will stop now. I will say only that I feel that the teachings of Jesus, due to a number of factors, have been very unfortunatley misrepresented and systematized by folks of a different understanding than His, and the consequences of that have been dire, to say the least.
I’m not sure that I understand what you mean by your “daily ‘ball of gas’ theory.” Also, you are asking for the titles of a large part of my library. I will give you a short list here, but the two mentioned in my earlier post deal with it on a more scientific basis. The ones following are more from an experiential basis, which I feel is the most productive, because it assumes the necessity of your essential unity with the Source of your questioning, i.e. your own holographic nature.
First, and to me, most basic: the unfortunately and misleadingly titled Insights for the Age of Aquarius by Gina Cerminara. It is, though incomplete in some respects, by far the most useful handbook for religious sanity I have ever encountered.
Next, websites, as they will be most imediately convenient for you: All of this comes with the following caveat: “The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings, for it destroys the world in which you live.” Of course this refers, in the same way as Armaggedon might, to an inner transformation that leaves the world as it is, but puts one’s understanding of it on a profoundly different footing. I can vouch for the overturning nature of that experience, and would not take it lightly. For most it would be best to stick with the two books already mentioned.
www.merell-wolff.org ~ a remarkable chronical and exegisis of transformation in Conscious Awareness, that being the essence of understanding through the ages of the holographic universe.
www.netinetifilms.com ~ Get the book, the website has been userped by follower, albeit a good intentioned one
www.gangaji.org ~ A wonderful woman in the tradition of Shankara and Ramana Maharshi
www.thework.com ~ Currently doing work with the most practical method of self inquiry I’ve found.
www.kgmfoundation.org ~ My own Mentor’s site, last only because he appeals to few due to the very lyrical and musically structured nature of his lectures. My comment? As wonderful as they were, you had to be there. But there are a couple of short clips worth watching, at the very least.
Books:
Pathways Through to Space & *The Philosophy of Consciousness Without and Object *both by F. Merrell-Wolff ~ Again, a remarkble chronicle and exegisis.
I AM THAT by Nisaragadatta
A Thousand Names for Joy by Byron Katie ~ This is a commentary on the I-Ching and is a remarkable uplifting insight of how someone who is consciously living as the understanding of the holographic universe thinks, or better, uses thought.
Anything by Kenneth G. Mills
*The Pagan Christ *& *Water into Wine *both by Tom Harpur ~ Dealing with the historization and literalization of the holographic understanding into christianist teachings, written with a view to the revitalization of a Christianity in the death grip of literalism.
All of the books by Carlos Castaneda that chronicle his experiences with Don Juan Matus. But first understand the others. Teachers, even Jesus, have usually given this explication through local cultural symbols to protect the innocent. E.g. parables, or what the system that has developed into the Pachamama alliance uses: the eagle and the condor as two phases of knowledge and experience. Most people on here, by that system’s catagorization, are strictly eagle minded, or materialistic in the sense of spiritual materialism, or dogmatism. Anyway, I’m starting a book here in a sub-catagory, lol!, so I will stop now. I will say only that I feel that the teachings of Jesus, due to a number of factors, have been very unfortunatley misrepresented and systematized by folks of a different understanding than His, and the consequences of that have been dire, to say the least.
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barryschoedel
Guest
I have read these texts when I was in my late teens. They are interesting but ultimately there is nothing new in them. Seeing reality as an illusion is an ancient philosophical solution to the inability to see or observe substance or essence, soul, and God but to be able to see and experience what is temporal. One logical solution to this is that what is temporal is a representation of substantial reality. In the new-paradigm the language of scientific materialism is blended with eastern philosophical concepts to create give materialism transcendent referential criteria that are acceptable to ‘rational’ thinkers.
Could are world be a giant hologram? Of course it could. All things are possible. However, the better question might be is how does this understanding effect
- How we understand a person (which is a religious and moral concept)
- How we define morality
- What is our relationship to that which is the ultimate reality
- What does it mean to tell someone that they are an illusion or really a hologram (which is a concept-not a person-some ‘thing’, not some ‘body’)
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SedesDomi
Guest
Don’t forget The Unfolding Now, by A. H. Almaas.
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barryschoedel
Guest
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html
“let it be known, if a person is seeking God, his Beloved is seeking him that much more” St. John of the Cross
probably in your search through New Age thought you will also run into Ken Wilber. He systematizes it in contemporary language and keeps it plausible, staying away from magic, superstition, appeal to semi-divine entities, etc.
Some day when you return to the Church, you will bring people like yourself to Jesus. I believe this.
Now I see a person who is desperately searching for a way out. Only the pain and suffering of being separated from God through sin causes this, and for this I have empathy because I too suffer from my sin.
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SedesDomi
Guest
If someone is going around telling people that they are an illusion, such a person doesn’t understand “illusion”.
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barryschoedel
Guest
Nevertheless this is a common interpretation of understanding persons as either the reflection of the play of the of the divine, as emanations or as bundles (aggregates caused by self-clinging). Each is another way of telling the person he is not real or that the self is an illusion. Or, put another way, it is a statement about God, that he didn’t or couldn’t create ‘ex nihilo’. If that is true God didn’t choose to create us, rather he can’t not create by his very nature. Then this abolishes free will, if God doesn’t have it neither do we. Of course one could argue that our free will is hampered by sin so we don’t really have it, but really sin effects our ability to will what is right, but not our freedom to oppose the divine will. Said another way, if God isn’t personal, neither are we. He couldn’t be personal if he couldn’t have acted creatio ex nihilo nor could ‘he’ freely love us because he is impersonal and may have the attribute of love but doesn’t freely will us into creation to share it.If someone is going around telling people that they are an illusion, such a person doesn’t understand “illusion”.
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Detales
Guest
Sorry, Barryschoedel, your interpretation is about 180 degrees around from and at right angles to where my understanding is. You also from your own words don’t understand the basis of the philosophy you dismiss. Plus, I can’t go back to what doesn’t exist for me in the form I originally understood it. That has evaporated like a mirage. And when I awoke to the realization I now have, my pain fell away from me, save that I could not convey my unutterable joy to dogmatists. We don’t have the same experiential frame or freedom of reference. But thanks for trying. I know you are as sincere as I was when I told folks the same thing you have told me. I was lucky. I was not decieved.
It is also why I think your paragraph “How we answer these questions, how we think about these questions, effects every aspect of our lives, from how we look at our pets to how we perceive our loved ones and our moral obligation towards our Brothers and Sisters.” is bang-on correct. We just understand what that means from radically different footings. That means that in conversation I can appear to agree in substance with nealy anyone’s interpretation of the Bible, etc, but I might as well be speaking a foreign language as to their understanding of my agreement. My pain is in my inability in sharing with the many, and my joy is in rejoicing with the few. You are welcome any time if you pay the price of admission as stated in the caveat above. St. John of the Cross is right, save that it is far more immediate than that.
It is also why I think your paragraph “How we answer these questions, how we think about these questions, effects every aspect of our lives, from how we look at our pets to how we perceive our loved ones and our moral obligation towards our Brothers and Sisters.” is bang-on correct. We just understand what that means from radically different footings. That means that in conversation I can appear to agree in substance with nealy anyone’s interpretation of the Bible, etc, but I might as well be speaking a foreign language as to their understanding of my agreement. My pain is in my inability in sharing with the many, and my joy is in rejoicing with the few. You are welcome any time if you pay the price of admission as stated in the caveat above. St. John of the Cross is right, save that it is far more immediate than that.
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barryschoedel
Guest
Your words are poetic but not analytical nor logical. If you want to demonstrate to me, or prove the validity of one of your philosophical claims do so using an analytical framework that is conducive to demonstration. Slow down your words, they are too emotional for sound reasoning.
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barryschoedel
Guest
I forgot to mention: I do not necessarily dismiss the notion that aspects of philosophy are perennial. Of course they are, human beings throughout time, come up with similar conclusions to philosophical problems albeit in different languages and circumstances. Nevertheless, some of our tendencies in perennial philosophy are problematic, particularly philosophical dualism and monism.
I personally, with the Church, reject nothing which is true, holy, and good because it is from God.
I don’t think the path (‘new-age’) you are on will lead you to deeper moral and spiritual integrity and communion with God and neighbor. If it does, then that is wonderful but I don’t sense it from your tone. I believe you are hurting and struggling in your moral life, particularly with anger and resentment, and maybe other areas. This comes across in your posts. I can only see this because I struggle with the same things and admit them freely to my creator and others.
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Detales
Guest
Wow. Maybe you ought to read my post.
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barryschoedel
Guest
I have read your posts. What is most striking about them is this special knowledge that you and a select few others have. This is a very ancient heresy. Do some people have more wisdom than others? Of course, however a God that sanctifies and liberates based on how smart or spiritually elite you are is not worth worshiping or seeking union with. I find my God in the poor, ignorant, and the suffering.
Also, any decent theologian realizes that paradox is one of the most fundamental aspects of Christian faith. Being able to hold conflicting statements (one God three persons or God-man) is necessary in the communication of idioms. When the divine reality is over-simplified we are more likely to create idols for God than when we leave what we know about him in paradoxical or analogical form.
It is also a grave error to believe that you have escaped dogma by creating new ones or looking to competing dogmas. The flight from absolutes becomes simply another dogma. Meta-narratives and themes are unavoidable, it is those we choose to be in relationship with that determines our own ‘story’. It if funny that those who are ‘liberated from dogma’ are
the most vigilant against it. To be free of dogma is to be an animal. Animals are free of dogma and morality.
I am sorry that you never had the experience of being in dialogue with Catholic theologians and philosophers that could at least do justice to the depth of the intellectual and mystical traditions of the Church (the mystical body of Christ).
It seems as if in the face of the shallow experience of Christianity that you were exposed to you felt you had to expose it as fraudulent. That is fine, however, you are not in dialogue with the tradition as a gestalt but instead it is your own experience of a limited aspect of it you are reeling against.
When you finish being upset at the Christianity you experienced you might want to go a little deeper than you did the first time around.
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