Outdoor mass compared to outdoor weddings

[Mike_from_NJ]

I happened to catch a conversation on the radio with Bishop O’Connell of the Diocese of Trenton. It has been archived here under September 6, 2019.

In his discussion starting at minute 7 (specifically 7:00-8:41) he talked about the annual outdoor mass that was coming up. He advised people that would be attending to bring a beach chair as in the past it had been hot.

Near the end of the program he talks about some of the letters he gets, and said that he reads each one. He gave examples of some of those letters, and from 54:30 to 56:09 in the discussion he talked about people who want him to allow outdoor weddings. While mentioning that there wee a few places in the country that allowed them, he noted that canon said that it should take place in a church, that it’s a sacrament and should be treated as such.

You can see my confusion as the eucharist within the mass is also a sacrament, yet here at the beginning of the talk he noted his annual mass on the beach. As I said, I know some places do allow for outdoor Catholic weddings, but overwhelmingly they are not permitted. I also know that while most masses are held indoors at a church, outdoors masses are not terribly uncommon and simply require the ok of the local bishop. Does the difference between allowing outdoor Catholic mass and not allowing (in most cases) outdoor Catholic weddings seem incongruous to anyone else?

 

[CRV]

Just an ordinary person here, not a priest, but my thoughts are:-

A Mass -
GIRM #288 “For the celebration of the Eucharist, the People of God are normally gathered together in a church or, if there is no church or if it is too small, then in another respectable place that is nonetheless worthy of so great a mystery.”

A Marriage -
Canon Law # 1118 "§1. A marriage between Catholics or between a Catholic party and a non-Catholic baptized party is to be celebrated in a parish church. It can be celebrated in another church or oratory with the permission of the local ordinary or pastor.

§2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.

§3. A marriage between a Catholic party and a non-baptized party can be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place."

So I think it depends on the reason, and if the local Ordinary gives permission.

Some articles that may be helpful-
Does Mass Have To Be Said In A Church?

Q&A with Fr John Flader: Can you have a Catholic wedding outside of a church?

Does a Catholic Wedding Have To Be Held in a Catholic Church?

Does the difference between allowing outdoor Catholic mass and not allowing (in most cases) outdoor Catholic weddings seem incongruous to anyone else?

To me - no.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The big outdoor masses bring hundreds or thousands of people. There is a reason they are held outdoors.

Most people blanch when I tell them my parents had 500 invited guests at their wedding, as if that is Kardashian worthy. I don’t think the “we don’t have enough seats for all of our guests” is usually the reason for asking for outdoor weddings.

Having suffered through outdoor weddings, a nice AC/d Church is so much better. #bathrooms

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Thanks, folks. As far as the reason for these outdoor masses being because of crowd size, I’m not sure if that’s wholly accurate.

In the discussion with the bishop I linked to in the first post he mentioned that last year it rained, so they had to move the mass indoors. That means that indoor facilities of a nature suitable for a sacrament were available. Yes, sometimes there are outdoor masses that involve numerous people; but that’s not always the case, and thus it’s not always the reason to have a mass outdoors.

Another thing to consider is that by having these masses outdoors the Church deems things like beaches and parks suitable areas (if not preferable) to celebrate a sacrament. The Church doesn’t allow mass to be held at non-Catholiic church or at places like shopping malls. They determine that beautiful places like beaches and parks represent the grandeur of God to warrant holding mass there. It would seem to follow that Catholic weddings would evoke the same grandeur.

 

[CRV]

The Church doesn’t allow mass to be held at non-Catholiic church

Actually it does which was explained in the first linked article Does Mass Have To Be Said In A Church, and it refers to canon law #933 “For a just cause and with the express permission of the local ordinary, a priest is permitted to celebrate the Eucharist in the place of worship of some Church or ecclesial community which does not have full communion with the Catholic Church so long as there is no scandal.”

 

[dochawk]

I know of exactly one licit outdoor Catholic wedding in the US–my daughter’s.

Our church isn’t large enough for everyone that was expected, AND, more importantly, we also have a consecrated altar outside.

So we moved our portable icons, the fans, etc. outside, and even hung some sheets for iconostasis.

Except for the dangling sheets, it worked so well that we now do it each year for Pascha . . . . including once with the bishop. Come to think of it, we did it another time with the bishop, again over seating space . . .

 

[twf]

Yes, but at least you put together a makeshift temple…much like the portable tabernacle of ancient Israel I suppose!

 

[dochawk]

we tend to be a little more than makeshifts . . .

As the liturgists are fond of saying (before they roll their eyes) . . . Byzantine liturgy isn’t done until it’s overdone!

:crazy_face:

 

[stpurl]

Exactly. I am aware of a parish in a nearly diocese where the church was heavily damaged in a storm and has to be repaired and renovated. Until the renovations are complete (which is probably still months away) the services for said Catholic church are being held in a nearby Protestant church. . .with the full consent --and thanks–of the diocesean bishop.

 

[gam197]

The priest at our church did a similar talk.

He took this reading last week…

“If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."

He explained how the nun, the priest, the marriage couple all take a sacred vocation before God and therefore the church is crucial to the setting. We each lay our life before the altar and before Christ.