Pagan Gods as Demons and Spiritual Peril?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MysticMissMisty
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MysticMissMisty

Guest
Salvete, omnes!

(Not sure where to put this question, so please feel free to move!)

Since pagan gods are equated with demons in at least one of the psalms…
  1. Am I putting myself in any spiritual peril (in the dangerous, supernatural sense) by visiting and even entering the ruins of ancient temples such as the Parthenon or Pantheon merely to admire their beauty, but, obviously, not in any way to worship the gods to whom they were dedicated? I understand that both were, at one time, made churches, so, apparently, those who made them such and worshiped God there did not believe so(?). Or, was there some kind of purification that took place before these were converted into churches? (I’m more up on the pre-Christian history of these buildings, so, if anyone could help me on these points, that would be great.) In any case, what of other temples which may not have undergone anything like this? What about gazing on pagan statues or other artistic portrayals of pagan gods? And, what about gazing upon statues of, say, Roman emperors who were deified? Especially in the latter cases, I am asking this wondering, among other things, if the demonic presence/influence still remains, say, in the temple buildings or even in/around the statues/art in some way?
  2. Am I doing the same by reading, say, classical literature that makes references to pagan gods (Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid and many others)? I think I actually read somewhere on this forum that pronouncing the names of demons can create supernatural spiritual peril, so, would pronouncing names such as those found in Graeco-Roman epic poetry result in the same? And, again, what about speaking the names of Roman emperors who were deified?
As a classicist, these issues are of particular interest to me.

On more of a side note (obviously better for an entirely new thread, but, you may wish to answer this here briefly), what, generally, can or cannot put one in supernatural spiritual peril, and, indeed, what does such spiritual peril involve? Or, am I completely off on this notion of supernatural spiritual peril? I just remember hearing about it off-hand on another forum post and am not really sure what Catholics do or do not believe on this matter.

Is there indeed any Church teaching on any of this?

Gratias.
 
Eek! It almost feels like I’m bordering on superstition here, but, again, I’m not at all sure about much at all about Catholic demonology.

Do we, in fact, have any exorcists among us? (I know! I sound like I’m asking this in jest, but, I am actually wondering, as they’d likely be most well-versed in such matters.)
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Eek! It almost feels like I’m bordering on superstition here
Click to expand...
Yes, you do seem to be. Merely visiting ruins? Reading old poetry? Looking at classic statues & paintings?

Christ didn’t die for us so that we could be afraid of everything. Giving the devil too much “credit” is almost as dangerous as not recognizing his existence at all.
 
agnes_therese said:
Yes, you do seem to be. Merely visiting ruins? Reading old poetry? Looking at classic statues & paintings?

Christ didn’t die for us so that we could be afraid of everything. Giving the devil too much “credit” is almost as dangerous as not recognizing his existence at all.
Click to expand...
Question is, am I really giving them too much credit? I mean, if such peril is real in these situations, it would be nice for me to know (and for others, especially those within my academic community…).

Again, wondering if there is any official position on such matters. If not, what are people’s thoughts and why? Any Scriptural/traditional evidence one way or the other?

I mean, personally, I’ve never known of/heard anyone, say, becoming possessed (indeed throughout all of history) by engaging in the activities I mention in my previous post. Perhaps that’s evidence enough? But, what of any, less obvious/noticeable effects that might be more “unconscious”, or am I just totally out on a limb now?
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Eek! It almost feels like I’m bordering on superstition here, but, again, I’m not at all sure about much at all about Catholic demonology.

Do we, in fact, have any exorcists among us? (I know! I sound like I’m asking this in jest, but, I am actually wondering, as they’d likely be most well-versed in such matters.)
Click to expand...
Yes, superstition and scrupulosity. Really, nothing to worry about.
 
Thinking more on the “historical evidence” I cited above of no known accounts (at least to me) of any kind of supernatural peril faced by Christians, say, touring pagan temple sites, could we argue, contrarily, though, that maybe there haven’t been enough genuine Christians touring these sites so as to represent a significant sample?

OK, I know, I know. Perhaps it sounds ridiculous to you, but the whole being under potential supernatural influence rather scares me. Before my conversion (into Protestantism), I was rather into the New Age Movement and had several strange experiences spread out over a number of years. (No possessions or anything, at least as far as I know, but seeing/feeling/hearing things, having then the tendency to seek them out out of mere curiosity. These days, of course, I stay as far away from these kinds of things as possible. I even hate shows, as those on Travel Channel, etc. about ghosts and all that.) Even now, though, I wonder if I am not particularly receptive to more supernatural experience than many might be. No more than a few years ago, someone committed suicide on my dorm floor at university and, one night, when I walked out toward that area, I felt a heaviness and a strong, wrathful negativity. I literally had to run. (I had prayed outside the room where he died shortly before that experience.)

Not to get off on a tangent here. I only point these things out so as to let you know why my concerns in this area are genuine and not overly-dramatic or whatever (to my mind, at least). Also, I have heard, at least in some Protestant circles, that people like me who are more “sensitive” as indeed I may be are more prone to demonic influence, or, if you will, negative energy, if you wish to call it that. Does this have any validity in Catholic teaching at all? Even if all people shouldn’t avoid what I described, then, should some like myself? Or, is there really no fear I should be having about things I described in my first post at all?

Believe me, I consider myself to be an otherwise rational person, odd is this discussion may seem, though I do admit I’m sometimes a deep/in the weeds/unconventional thinker. I am otherwise I very balanced person, I think.

Indeed, while Catholics seem to have a very strong (I believe the term is) metaphysics of God, the same seems not to hold true for the devil and his angels.
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Salvete, omnes!

(Not sure where to put this question, so please feel free to move!)

Since pagan gods are equated with demons in at least one of the psalms…
  1. Am I putting myself in any spiritual peril (in the dangerous, supernatural sense) by visiting and even entering the ruins of ancient temples such as the Parthenon or Pantheon merely to admire their beauty, but, obviously, not in any way to worship the gods to whom they were dedicated? I understand that both were, at one time, made churches, so, apparently, those who made them such and worshiped God there did not believe so(?). Or, was there some kind of purification that took place before these were converted into churches? (I’m more up on the pre-Christian history of these buildings, so, if anyone could help me on these points, that would be great.) In any case, what of other temples which may not have undergone anything like this? What about gazing on pagan statues or other artistic portrayals of pagan gods? And, what about gazing upon statues of, say, Roman emperors who were deified? Especially in the latter cases, I am asking this wondering, among other things, if the demonic presence/influence still remains, say, in the temple buildings or even in/around the statues/art in some way?
  2. Am I doing the same by reading, say, classical literature that makes references to pagan gods (Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid and many others)? I think I actually read somewhere on this forum that pronouncing the names of demons can create supernatural spiritual peril, so, would pronouncing names such as those found in Graeco-Roman epic poetry result in the same? And, again, what about speaking the names of Roman emperors who were deified?
As a classicist, these issues are of particular interest to me.

On more of a side note (obviously better for an entirely new thread, but, you may wish to answer this here briefly), what, generally, can or cannot put one in supernatural spiritual peril, and, indeed, what does such spiritual peril involve? Or, am I completely off on this notion of supernatural spiritual peril? I just remember hearing about it off-hand on another forum post and am not really sure what Catholics do or do not believe on this matter.

Is there indeed any Church teaching on any of this?

Gratias.
Click to expand...
If you are worried about evil spirits then say the St. Michael prayer.

PRAYER TO ST. MICHAEL

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the day of Battle; Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who prowl through the world, seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen
(This powerful prayer of exorcism was composed by Pope Leo XIII; in a vision, he had been shown the fearful battle to be waged between Satan and St. Michael, over the Church of the future. Now, as never before, the Church needs the intercession of St. Michaell Please say this prayer every day.)
brizek.com/prayer/pieta.htm
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Thinking more on the “historical evidence” I cited above of no known accounts (at least to me) of any kind of supernatural peril faced by Christians, say, touring pagan temple sites, could we argue, contrarily, though, that maybe there haven’t been enough genuine Christians touring these sites so as to represent a significant sample?

OK, I know, I know. Perhaps it sounds ridiculous to you, but the whole being under potential supernatural influence rather scares me. Before my conversion (into Protestantism), I was rather into the New Age Movement and had several strange experiences spread out over a number of years. (No possessions or anything, at least as far as I know, but seeing/feeling/hearing things, having then the tendency to seek them out out of mere curiosity. These days, of course, I stay as far away from these kinds of things as possible. I even hate shows, as those on Travel Channel, etc. about ghosts and all that.) Even now, though, I wonder if I am not particularly receptive to more supernatural experience than many might be. No more than a few years ago, someone committed suicide on my dorm floor at university and, one night, when I walked out toward that area, I felt a heaviness and a strong, wrathful negativity. I literally had to run. (I had prayed outside the room where he died shortly before that experience.)

Not to get off on a tangent here. I only point these things out so as to let you know why my concerns in this area are genuine and not overly-dramatic or whatever (to my mind, at least). Also, I have heard, at least in some Protestant circles, that people like me who are more “sensitive” as indeed I may be are more prone to demonic influence, or, if you will, negative energy, if you wish to call it that. Does this have any validity in Catholic teaching at all? Even if all people shouldn’t avoid what I described, then, should some like myself? Or, is there really no fear I should be having about things I described in my first post at all?

Believe me, I consider myself to be an otherwise rational person, odd is this discussion may seem, though I do admit I’m sometimes a deep/in the weeds/unconventional thinker. I am otherwise I very balanced person, I think.

Indeed, while Catholics seem to have a very strong (I believe the term is) metaphysics of God, the same seems not to hold true for the devil and his angels.
Click to expand...
There is no place on this earth where you can set foot and be 100% sure that at no time in human history was a pagan ritual performed there, or a pagan god worshipped. What painting or sculpture can you look at, unless you created it yourself, and be 100% sure that no occult symbol is hidden there?

You are setting yourself up to be afraid of everything, all the time. Do you really think that’s what God intends for us?

You don’t need an exorcist to tell you these things. God gave us common sense for a reason – He expects us to use it.
 
agnes_therese said:
There is no place on this earth where you can set foot and be 100% sure that at no time in human history was a pagan ritual performed there, or a pagan god worshipped. What painting or sculpture can you look at, unless you created it yourself, and be 100% sure that no occult symbol is hidden there?

You are setting yourself up to be afraid of everything, all the time. Do you really think that’s what God intends for us?

You don’t need an exorcist to tell you these things. God gave us common sense for a reason – He expects us to use it.
Click to expand...
There’s common sense, much of it influenced by modern Western secularization/rationalism. Then, there’s theology.

I still haven’t received an answer to my question, which, ultimately, whether entering pagan temples such as I mentioned above for aesthetic/academic purposes, looking at pagan sculpture for the same or even reading pagan literature for the same and even for whatever wisdom might be therein, may set me in some supernatural spiritual peril. So, therefroe, I ask thsi again.
 
Thinking on it a little more, I’ve come up with potentially some more supporting evidence against demonic influence in the cases with which I first started this discussion.

Paul saw (and likely looked upon intently) an altar to an “unknown God” and he apparently was not demonically affected in any way because ofit, though I suppose we are not quite certain how close he was to it or whether he did undergo any kind of purifciation afterward.

Paul also went aboard a ship that had signs to Castor and Pollux and the same as above seems to be the case.

Members of the Christian community were often named after pagan figures such as Achilles and Aeneas and this doesn’t seemed to have affected them in terms of their name being spoken by others or using it themselves.

While many early Christians took issue with reading classical literature, they seemed not specifically to have concerns about demonic issues in these cases. Also, many Christians, both early and later, seemed to be fine with reading such, implicitly having no concern for their (supernatural) spiritual state.

But, was this always the case for all men? Were these people, particularly Paul, under some sort of special protection, Paul because of his calling to his churches? Also, what about those like myself who are arguably more “sensitive” to the “spiritual”?
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Thinking on it a little more, I’ve come up with potentially some more supporting evidence against demonic influence in the cases with which I first started this discussion.

Paul saw (and likely looked upon intently) an altar to an “unknown God” and he apparently was not demonically affected in any way because ofit, though I suppose we are not quite certain how close he was to it or whether he did undergo any kind of purifciation afterward.

Paul also went aboard a ship that had signs to Castor and Pollux and the same as above seems to be the case.

Members of the Christian community were often named after pagan figures such as Achilles and Aeneas and this doesn’t seemed to have affected them in terms of their name being spoken by others or using it themselves.

While many early Christians took issue with reading classical literature, they seemed not specifically to have concerns about demonic issues in these cases. Also, many Christians, both early and later, seemed to be fine with reading such, implicitly having no concern for their (supernatural) spiritual state.

But, was this always the case for all men? Were these people, particularly Paul, under some sort of special protection, Paul because of his calling to his churches? Also, what about those like myself who are arguably more “sensitive” to the “spiritual”?
Click to expand...
Just about the whole world is pagan/demonic… you would have to live under a rock to avoid it.
 
Techno2000 said:
Just about the whole world is pagan/demonic… you would have to live under a rock to avoid it.
Click to expand...
But, is there something supernaturally more dangerous about being close to, say, places where pagan sacrifices were carried out/pagan gods were worshiped, reading works about pagan gods, etc. etc. etc.?
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Salvete, omnes!

(Not sure where to put this question, so please feel free to move!)

Since pagan gods are equated with demons in at least one of the psalms…
  1. Am I putting myself in any spiritual peril (in the dangerous, supernatural sense) by visiting and even entering the ruins of ancient temples such as the Parthenon or Pantheon merely to admire their beauty, but, obviously, not in any way to worship the gods to whom they were dedicated? I understand that both were, at one time, made churches, so, apparently, those who made them such and worshiped God there did not believe so(?). Or, was there some kind of purification that took place before these were converted into churches? (I’m more up on the pre-Christian history of these buildings, so, if anyone could help me on these points, that would be great.) In any case, what of other temples which may not have undergone anything like this? What about gazing on pagan statues or other artistic portrayals of pagan gods? And, what about gazing upon statues of, say, Roman emperors who were deified? Especially in the latter cases, I am asking this wondering, among other things, if the demonic presence/influence still remains, say, in the temple buildings or even in/around the statues/art in some way?
  2. Am I doing the same by reading, say, classical literature that makes references to pagan gods (Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid and many others)? I think I actually read somewhere on this forum that pronouncing the names of demons can create supernatural spiritual peril, so, would pronouncing names such as those found in Graeco-Roman epic poetry result in the same? And, again, what about speaking the names of Roman emperors who were deified?
As a classicist, these issues are of particular interest to me.

On more of a side note (obviously better for an entirely new thread, but, you may wish to answer this here briefly), what, generally, can or cannot put one in supernatural spiritual peril, and, indeed, what does such spiritual peril involve? Or, am I completely off on this notion of supernatural spiritual peril? I just remember hearing about it off-hand on another forum post and am not really sure what Catholics do or do not believe on this matter.

Is there indeed any Church teaching on any of this?

Gratias.
Click to expand...
Actually Catholic churches (basilicas) were modeled after the Roman public court buildings.

The word was originally used to describe an open, Roman, public court building, usually located adjacent to the forum of a Roman town. By extension it was applied to Christian buildings of the same form and continues to be used in an architectural sense to describe those buildings with a central nave and aisles. Later, the term came to refer specifically to a large and important church that has been given special ceremonial rights by the Pope.

Everything comes from something else in history.
 
MysticMissMisty said:
But, is there something supernaturally more dangerous about being close to, say, places where pagan sacrifices were carried out/pagan gods were worshiped, reading works about pagan gods, etc. etc. etc.?
Click to expand...
No, because the Catholic church would have some kind of teach on this, but it doesn’t, and as matter of fact I think the church has Historical artifacts at the Vatican of pagan god etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top