Pagan names for stuff

[MysticMonist]

Hello,

In studying Greek/Roman paganism, I discovered how many English words are either the names of gods or are directly related to pagan religous practices.
Some examples:
Hygiene is a goodess, daughter of asceplius.
Cereal is for Ceres, a goodess of agriculture
Therapy is from therapeutae, the servants of asceplius
The planets and some elements, days of the week and the months
I’m positive it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

So if other gods are demons (1 Corinthians 10:21) why are fundamentalists or evagelicals not flipping out over this? Or are they?
I know Catholics are typically much more reasonable about things and I wonder what the church has said about the topic at all?

Thanks!

 

[GordonP]

I know Catholics are typically much more reasonable about things and I wonder what the church has said about the topic at all?

The reason that many of those words appear in English at all is because they were preserved and propagated, and sometimes even coined, by medieval clerics, who not only spoke Latin, but avidly read and were well familiar with Classical Roman and Greek literature, including the mythology.

Medieval monks heavily relied on Classical Roman literature as a model of what good Latin was supposed to be, so the reading they did was not only just for entertainment, but to improve their language and reasoning skills. Classical mythology was a very important part of their culture common culture, and it is no surprise that terms from Pagan mythology became part of their common language, much like educated English speakers often make references to Shakespeare or other classic works of English and world literature.

 

[BartholomewB]

One Catholic who shared your concern was St. Martin of Braga, a bishop whose diocese covered a large part of western Spain and northern Portugal. In or around the year 570, he changed the names of the days of the week, dropping the pagan names and adopting, instead, the numbering (“second day,” “third day,” etc.) in use in Church Latin. To this day, the effect of his reform is still seen in the Portuguese language, though it never caught on in Spanish.

Here are the Latin and Portuguese names. Sunday is “the Lord’s Day” and Saturday is “the Sabbath.”

English … … … Latin … … … … … … Portuguese

Sunday … … … Dies dominica … … Domingo

Monday … … … Feria secunda … … Segunda-feira

Tuesday … … … Feria tertia … … … Terça-feira

Wednesday … … Feria quarta … … Quarta-feira

Thursday … … … Feria quinta … … Quinta-feira

Friday … … … … Feria sexta … … … Sexta-feira

Saturday … … … Sabbatum … … … Sábado

A question that is sometimes asked, is why St. Martin didn’t change the names of the months as well. As far as I’m aware, it’s a question that no one has ever found the answer to.

Martin of Braga - Wikipedia

 

[GordonP]

One Catholic who shared your concern was St. Martin of Braga

Thanks for the link. One sentence that struck me was the following:

" But for modern scholars, his most interesting works were two treatises he wrote in the final decade of his life, De ira and Formula vitae honestae , because they were adapted from two essays of Seneca the Younger which were subsequently lost. ‘Martin’s tract are valuable evidence that some at least of Seneca’s writings were still available in the land of his birth in the sixth century,’ writes Laistner."

So even he had some appreciation for Pagan thought.

 

[GordonP]

I also followed the link from your article to one on one of his works on Paganism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_of_Braga#De_correctione_rusticorum

This passage is illuminating:

" Out of all of Martin’s works, De correctione rusticorum (On the Reform of Rustics) is of particular interest to modern scholars. It contains both a detailed catalogue of sixth-century Iberian pagan practices, and an unusually tolerant approach to them by Martin. Alberto Ferreiro attributes Martin’s acceptance to his classical education in the East, as well as the influence of philosophers like Seneca the Younger and Plato. Martin himself had avoided religious suppression by traveling to Dumiam, in what is now Portugal. He had sailed east around 550, during the period when Justinian I was attempting to reunite the Later Roman Empire through consolidation of the empire’s faith. In 529, Justinian had placed the Neoplatonic Academy under state control, effectively signifying the end of pagan philosophical teaching. Later, in 553, Origen was also anathematized, effectively crushing Origenism. The Codex Justinianus enforced Nicaean Christianity over all other rival doctrines. Martin may have chosen to flee east to avoid Rome’s anti-intellectual policies, which possible explains his relatively gentle approach to the Suevi in Gallaecia."

 

[Muzhik]

A question that is sometimes asked, is why St. Martin didn’t change the names of the months as well.

Because not all of the month’s names are pagan in origin. “July” is for Julius Caesar, “August” is for Augustus Caesar; Sept. through Dec. are months 7 through 10, respectively. (Holdovers from when the year began in March.)

 

[BartholomewB]

Agreed, but July and August were given those names after the eponymous Caesars had been deified. And in any case, Martin didn’t even take the trouble to change the names of the months from January through June.

 

[GordonP]

And in any case, Martin didn’t even take the trouble to change the names of the months from January through June.

Nor did he change his own name, which means “dedicated to Mars”.

 

[MysticMonist]

Thanks for all the answers so quickly. I had forgotten that only a few decades ago, part of being a educated person in the west meant a decent knowledge of roman mythology. (Who knows what they teach these days!!)

I think the root of the issue is that evangelicals and those who believe that the only book worth reading is the bible, are simply ignorant. They aren’t aware of the influence that other faiths played on their own and their ideas, both religous and cultural, don’t come from a vacuum. If they had bothered to study either traditions of the past or other faiths today, they would recognize the clear wisdom and even the presence of God there.

The Catholics have a strong tradition of spotting wisdom beyond their own walls, so I’m mainly critiquing mainline Protestantism and fundamentalist Christians.

 

[GordonP]

I’m mainly critiquing mainline Protestantism and fundamentalist Christians.

Mainline Protestantism is much more like Catholicism on this point. History is very important to them. A lot of the people I know who know the most about the history of the Church are Mainline Protestants, or former members.

Fundamentalists are sort of strange in their lack of interest in the history of the Church or of Western culture.

 

[ZMystiCat]

So if other gods are demons (1 Corinthians 10:21) why are fundamentalists or evagelicals not flipping out over this? Or are they?

There actually are some fringe groups that do make a big deal out of it. For instance, they won’t buy a “Dirt Devil” because it has “Devil” in the name.

Edit: As for some of the words mentioned here, they may get a pass out of ignorance. Most Christians in these groups aren’t exactly the most well-learned in Greek and Roman paganism.

 

[GordonP]

For instance, they won’t buy a “Dirt Devil” because it has “Devil” in the name.

I have heard of that, too. But I doubt there is a single one who would refuse to buy a Mars bar on the same principle.

 

[BartholomewB]

Fundamentalists are sort of strange in their lack of interest in the history of the Church or of Western culture.

One poster I frequently engage with on another website, on friendly terms, is a Christian Zionist. I’m not sure whether the term “fundamentalist” can properly be applied to him, but he writes as though he were living in New Testament times — in Paul’s Ephesus, say. He seems to have no sense of history at all, in that context. When he objects to the word “priest”, for instance, it’s as though he doesn’t realize that the English language didn’t even come into existence until several centuries after Paul’s day. And he’s a highly educated man, a research scientist by profession, at a British university, though I don’t know which one.

 

[MysticMonist]

Hmmm… “History is very important to them”. Of course. I was talking more about how the Catholic Church has intentionallu borrowed alot from the Greek philosophy and has within it movements that sought to explore and find Christ in other faiths like the Jesuits and one of my favorite guys, but obscure is Athanasius Kircher.

This may be getting off topic, but recently I’ve come to more peace with being in an Episicopalian family even though I’m not doctrinally Christian. I think history really does matter. On one hand that means that many believes are inconsistent but on the other hand it means that the Christian tradition is a historical tradition and path which, I believe, does lead to God. The path itself isn’t God, of course. But that doesn’t make the path bad.

 

[ZMystiCat]

But I doubt there is a single one who would refuse to buy a Mars bar on the same principle.

As I noted in my edit, I suspect some of this is due to ignorance. I wouldn’t imagine someone opposing “Dirt Devil” to read Greek and Roman pagan literature all that much kind of for the same reasons.

With that I said, I never really pushed the issue with anyone I know who held to this. My parents held to it while I was growing up, but by the time I would have started questioning it, they had already started moving away themselves.

And he’s a highly educated man, a research scientist by profession, at a British university, though I don’t know which one.

Not to insult anyone’s intelligence, but being an expert in a field doesn’t mean a whole lot about any other field. Most of the people I work with are absolutely brilliant when it comes to math and/or computer science, but there can be some pretty obvious gaps in their knowledge of religion or philosophy, based on the few conversations I’ve had with them (or overheard) on the subjects.

 

[Mintaka]

The English word “priest” comes from the Greek “presbyter,” meaning “elder.” It’s not the same word as Hebrew “kohen” or Greek “hierophant.”

Of course, if he’s going to object to the bishops making presbyters into sacerdotes (Latin “sacerdos”) as well as elders, he’s gonna have to take it up with the early Christians.

For that matter, a lot of names for Jewish months that show up in the Bible are adapted from Babylonian month names.

Like “Nisan.”

So if Jesus didn’t object to being born in a Jewish month with a pagan name, the rest of us are being picky…

Martin of Braga was dealing with a specific problem, though. There was a lot of Roman astrology/paganism and divination, connected with practices on the days of the week, and particularly with the Sun’s day or with Venus’ day. A lot of the Goths and Franks had picked up on this, and were doing this stuff in France and Spain in the early Middle Ages. I read “Correctione” when I was looking for stuff that my guy Beatus of Liebana had cited, but Beatus’ superstition list was a totally different one! (Although also very Roman.) And Bede has a list, and everybody else has a list…

Anyway, the people who went to numbered days of the week were the Greeks, the Portuguese, and the Irish. Obviously they were the ones with more problems.

 

[niceatheist]

I’d argue there wouldn’t even be Christianity, at least as we know it, without the likes of Plato and Aristotle.

 

[Angannas]

The early Quakers, before they wandered off into synchrotism and relativism, referred to the days as Sunday - First Day… Saturday- Seventh Day. I think they did something similar with the months, precisely because of the pagan roots of the common names

 

[BartholomewB]

I’d argue there wouldn’t even be Christianity, at least as we know it, without the likes of Plato and Aristotle.

That, basically, is what Edwin Hatch says in the opening paragraph of his last book, The Influence of Greek Ideas and Usages Upon the Christian Church.

It is impossible for anyone, whether he be a student of history or no, to fail to notice a difference of both form and content between the Sermon on the Mount and the Nicene Creed. The Sermon on the Mount is the promulgation of a new law of conduct; it assumes beliefs rather than formulates them; the theological conceptions which underlie it belong to the ethical rather than the speculative side of theology; metaphysics are wholly absent. The Nicene Creed is a statement partly of historical facts and partly of dogmatic inferences; the metaphysical terms which it contains would probably have been unintelligible to the first disciples; ethics have no place in it. The one belongs to a world of Syrian peasants, the other to a world of Greek philosophers.

https://archive.org/details/influenceofgreek00hatc/page/n27

 

[BartholomewB]

Thank you. I didn’t know that about the Quakers. I wonder why they didn’t stick with “the Lord’s Day” for Sunday.