Pagan origins of Christianity?

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I had someone go on about this. He read out this thing, from the Mystery Cult of Mithras, and it sounded like the Eucharist, like it said, if you drink my blood, i am in you and you are in me, etc. I’ve been over this before. Heard it all. You know about the god-man who hangs on a tree, like Dionysus or whatever. But what is a good way to defend against it to someone? This guy is one of those people who thinks Jesus was God, but the same amount as Buddha or Krishna, or maybe even himself and me, who knows, he didn’t get specific. So is there any link you all might have that adresses this? A book recommendation? Or anything I could counter with? Like, what would you say to it?
 
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Oren:
I had someone go on about this. He read out this thing, from the Mystery Cult of Mithras, and it sounded like the Eucharist, like it said, if you drink my blood, i am in you and you are in me, etc. I’ve been over this before. Heard it all. You know about the god-man who hangs on a tree, like Dionysus or whatever. But what is a good way to defend against it to someone? This guy is one of those people who thinks Jesus was God, but the same amount as Buddha or Krishna, or maybe even himself and me, who knows, he didn’t get specific. So is there any link you all might have that adresses this? A book recommendation? Or anything I could counter with? Like, what would you say to it?
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First explain to him tha whether or not Christianity has a pagan influence is irrelevant to the Faiith of Christians.

Also the Mithras “Parallel” is made often, even in university classes. VERY bad scholarship. Many of the practices of the Cult of Mithras in Roman times was borrowed from Christianity, not the other way around.

Here is a good resource…

tektonics.org/tekton_04_02_04_MMM.html
 
Here’s an answer I gave to a similar problem on another thread:

This is a pretty common charge tossed around by people that have been influenced by anti-Catholic books and teachers. Most of these people have never bothered to look at the facts and implicitly believe their sources.

You’ll probably have to proceed very slowly with this person, taking on one issue at a time and not allowing a lot of bouncing around of subjects or the acceptance of blanket statements. As he (hopefully) becomes more open to listening to the Catholic side, you can probably give her material to read for herself.

In the meantime, you need to equip yourself. I suggest you find (or order from this site) Karl Keating’s apologetic masterpiece Catholicism and Fundamentalism. You can also start with some of the articles on the alleged pagan origins of Catholicism also available on this site at the link below:

catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp
“I wish none of this had ever happened.”“So do all who live to face such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.” -Gandalf
 
I see that one resource listed, tektonics.org, is operated by someone who, though claiming non-denominational status, attends a Southern Baptist church. I’m afraid that raises red flags for me, as I have found a tendency towards creative and revisionist history in Baptist circles: maybe I’m over-reacting, the result of being told (over and over and over and over) how my Church killed 68 million Bible-believin’ Baptists, being drunk with the blood of saints and all…so, my question is, how reliable is this information? Are there any good Catholic sources in addition to Catholic.com’s tract on this subject?
 
I love how some anti-catholics will use this charge as against Catholicism but for some reason they don’t use it against their faith.
 
The Church has never shied away from taking pagan symbols, objects, etc. and using them. The wedding band and the Christmas tree were both pagan symbols. Many early churches were erected on the site of pagan temples.

Non-Christian/pagan elements were also elements of the culture in the first centuries of the Church. Use of these elements do not imply at all that Christianity sprang from paganism.
 
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Sherlock:
I see that one resource listed, tektonics.org, is operated by someone who, though claiming non-denominational status, attends a Southern Baptist church. I’m afraid that raises red flags for me, as I have found a tendency towards creative and revisionist history in Baptist circles: maybe I’m over-reacting, the result of being told (over and over and over and over) how my Church killed 68 million Bible-believin’ Baptists, being drunk with the blood of saints and all…so, my question is, how reliable is this information? Are there any good Catholic sources in addition to Catholic.com’s tract on this subject?
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The Scholarship of the websites author is quite good and its a very good resouce. Yes he is not a Catholic but neither is he anti-catholic. He has quite successfully REFUTED numerous anti-catholic arguments and considers website thats use anti-catholic propaganda to be “Low Rent” webpages. His page is geared toward refuteing anti-christian skeptics. He may have a baptist bias but he is certainly not biased against the Chuch. His information concerning the Pagan “Saviour Cults” is quite good.

As to Catholic or Orthodox sources which deal with this issue. I havent seen any good ones. For us its really a non-issue.

So to answer the Mithras issue.

1: Mathras was Born of a Virgin in a Cave.
False. Mithras sprang full grown out of a rock
2: He was buried and rose again after 3 days
False There is no referance in th4e Mithratic Liturature of his death or burial. and no ressurection
3:His followers had a Eucharist.
Fale. They had a sacred meal as did most religions but it did not resemble the Eucharist at all. Nor was it for the same reason. His followers preparedf and ate cakes laced with a hallucinogenic herb. No atonement involved.

The list goes on.
 
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Oren:
I had someone go on about this. He read out this thing, from the Mystery Cult of Mithras, and it sounded like the Eucharist, like it said, if you drink my blood, i am in you and you are in me, etc. I’ve been over this before. Heard it all. You know about the god-man who hangs on a tree, like Dionysus or whatever. But what is a good way to defend against it to someone?
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Comparison/contrast. What do you have in kind with the Mystery Cults, and what do we have similar to them.

Start with a comparison/contrast for yourself. Then use the contrasting doctrine in your conversation with your opponent.

Catholics Doctrine In Common with Mystery Cults:

  1. *]God as Mysterious Being: God, in his own nature is a mystery, incomprehensible to human beings.
    *]Divine Being: There is a higher and divine being.
    *]Worship: We are supposed to worship this higher being.

    Catholic Doctrine Not in Common with Mystery Cults:

    1. *]Public Revelation: The truths of the Catholic Faith are not secrets, they are public knowledge. There are no “secret” doctrines that you have to be initiated into the Catholic Faith first, to learn later.
      *]Publically Initiated: The Catholic faith was started publically by it’s founder, who showed up in Synagogues to preach his doctrine and invite sinners to repentance. Nothing was done in private, all was presented publically.
      *]Indefectibility: The Catholic Church has endured and grown over time, it has not faded away. The Mystery Cults have.
      This guy is one of those people who thinks Jesus was God, but the same amount as Buddha or Krishna, or maybe even himself and me, who knows, he didn’t get specific. So is there any link you all might have that adresses this? A book recommendation? Or anything I could counter with? Like, what would you say to it?
      Click to expand...
      What can you do with such a person, except teach them, and pray for them? But remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.
 
thanks for the replies. I found the tektonics site to be very useful, though i did notice it was from a protestant. the one thing i couldn’t understand in the arguments on the page was to say that Jesus never descended to the dead? anyway, it still was useful. this person who said this is not anti catholic per se, he is just one of those people who thinks that all religions including catholicism are equal. so he finds it profitable to himself and his beliefs to say that christianity came from pagan mystery cults etc. i talked to him, and showed him some of the material I got off that site. which is really all one can do with someone such as this. thanks again.
 
I have studied the Mithras issue for a while now as well as some of the other copycat theories. I think the best refutation is a very Catholic one: study Judaism. Although it is not a pancea for the situation, claims about baptism, the Eucharist, etc. can easily be countered by showing their Jewish roots.

Other than that, the tectonics site is the only website that I have seen that deals with the issue. The author of the page cites several Evangelical authors that you can refer to as well.

In the end, remember that the people who promote these copycat thesis are ones that have a bone to pick with Christianity in the first place. You aren’t going to convert too many of them. Remember to be patient and kind.
 
I view it as a way cool big thumb 👍 in Satans; eye, that the Church takes his FORMER Paganistic symbols and sites, consecrates them, and raises them to sacraments and holiness in order to honor and worship God…a great use of Good OVER Evil. Pagans and/or anti catholics/christians fail to see it like this cause they arent looking with a spiritual mindset…they think they’re being clever by calling us robbers of former religions…whatever…it was Evil made Good.
 
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