Panikhida of Pope St. John Paul

[twf]

youtube.com/watch?v=GNiSU0iDH6Q
There are six Eastern Catholic Patriarchs representing six distinct rites (5 if you consider Maronite / West Syriac to be the same rite) - what tradition did the Patriarchs use when praying over St. John Paul’s body?

 

[Vico]

youtube.com/watch?v=GNiSU0iDH6Q
There are six Eastern Catholic Patriarchs representing six distinct rites (5 if you consider Maronite / West Syriac to be the same rite) - what tradition did the Patriarchs use when praying over St. John Paul’s body?

Byzantine. Both Greek and Arabic are used. Melkite Greek-Catholic patriarch Gregory Laham (Damas, Syria) was intoning the hymns. They do the Toparion in Tone 4.
Litany (you hear the kyrie eleison response.) Later prayer in Arabic.

 

[twf]

Byzantine. Both Greek and Arabic are used. Melkite Greek-Catholic patriarch Gregory Laham (Damas, Syria) was intoning the hymns. They do the Toparion in Tone 4.
Litany (you hear the kyrie eleison response.) Later prayer in Arabic.

Interesting. Why Byzantine? The Coptic Patriarch holds primacy after Rome, so wouldn’t Coptic make sense?

 

[Vico]

Interesting. Why Byzantine? The Coptic Patriarch holds primacy after Rome, so wouldn’t Coptic make sense?

CCEO Canon 59

1. Patriarchs of Eastern Churches, even if some are of later times, are all equal by reason of patriarchal dignity with due regard for the precedence of honor among them.
2. The order of precedence among the ancient patriarchal sees of the Eastern Churches is that in the first place comes the see of Constantinople, after that Alexandria, then Antioch and Jerusalem.
3. Among the other patriarchs of the Eastern Churches, precedence is ordered according to the antiquity of the patriarchal see.
4. Among the patriarchs of the Eastern Churches who each are of the same title but who preside over different patriarchal Churches, he has precedence who was first promoted to the patriarchal dignity.

 

[coptsoldier]

I Believe Rome would still consider Alexandria to be 2nd in a reunified Church. Also see that it was the Coptic Catholic Patriarch who incensed the Coffin first. But the Alexandrian rite is tiny compared to the Byzantine Church.

 

[Thomas48]

CCEO Canon 59

1. Patriarchs of Eastern Churches, even if some are of later times, are all equal by reason of patriarchal dignity with due regard for the precedence of honor among them.
2. The order of precedence among the ancient patriarchal sees of the Eastern Churches is that in the first place comes the see of Constantinople, after that Alexandria, then Antioch and Jerusalem.
3. Among the other patriarchs of the Eastern Churches, precedence is ordered according to the antiquity of the patriarchal see.
4. Among the patriarchs of the Eastern Churches who each are of the same title but who preside over different patriarchal Churches, he has precedence who was first promoted to the patriarchal dignity.

I am curious to how this works out among the Eastern Churches in regards to the order of precedence. For example the canon states that “first comes Constantinople”, following this canon, which hierarch is actually in precedence if there are many Eastern Churches of Byzantine (Constantinople) tradition and rite?

 

[twf]

I am curious to how this works out among the Eastern Churches in regards to the order of precedence. For example the canon states that “first comes Constantinople”, following this canon, which hierarch is actually in precedence if there are many Eastern Churches of Byzantine (Constantinople) tradition and rite?

Its not about the Rite, its about the See. As there is no Patriarch of Constantinople in the Catholic communion, the Patriarch of Alexandria of the Coptic Catholic Church would take precedence…followed by, I believe, the Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch.

I suppose the Byzantine prayers were selected for St. JP II’s funeral as Byzantine Catholics account for the majority of Eastern Catholics. As Coptsoldier pointed out, the Coptic Catholic Patriarch still led the procession of Eastern patriarchs.

 

[Thomas48]

Its not about the Rite, its about the See. As there is no Patriarch of Constantinople in the Catholic communion, the Patriarch of Alexandria of the Coptic Catholic Church would take precedence…followed by, I believe, the Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch.

I suppose the Byzantine prayers were selected for St. JP II’s funeral as Byzantine Catholics account for the majority of Eastern Catholics. As Coptsoldier pointed out, the Coptic Catholic Patriarch still led the procession of Eastern patriarchs.

I understand this precedence is in regards to the See of Constantinople but didn’t the churches of Byzantine (Constantinople) Rite originally all emerge from this See one point or another in history? In example, if the canon were to state something along the lines of “first comes the See of Assyria” technically two churches would have a claim to this title both Chaldean and Syro Malabar since they both historically have ties to this seat of authority, even though today that is not exactly where their See’s are located (i.e Ernakulam-Angamaly, Baghdad). In another more realistic example, both the Melkite and Syriac Catholic Church claim the title Patriarch of Antioch and emerged from the historic See of Antioch, so who is in precedence according to this canon? I am asking out of pure curiosity since many Eastern Churches share the same or similar origins and apostolic claims.

 

[Vico]

I am curious to how this works out among the Eastern Churches in regards to the order of precedence. For example the canon states that “first comes Constantinople”, following this canon, which hierarch is actually in precedence if there are many Eastern Churches of Byzantine (Constantinople) tradition and rite?

Eastern Catholic Patriarchal Sees:

• Alexandria (Coptic)
• Antioch
• Maronite - Jounieh Lebanon
• Syrian - Beirut Lebanon
• Greek-Melkite - Damas Syria
• Babylon (Chaldean)
• Cilicia (Armenian)

 

[malphono]

Eastern Catholic Patriarchal Sees:

• Alexandria (Coptic)
• Antioch
• Maronite - Jounieh Lebanon
• Syrian - Beirut Lebanon
• Greek-Melkite - Damas Syria
• Babylon (Chaldean)
• Cilicia (Armenian)

Two small corrections:

The seat of the Maronite Patriarchate is in Bkerké.
The seat of the Syriac Catholic Patriarchate is in Charfet

 

[Vico]

Two small corrections:

The seat of the Maronite Patriarchate is in Bkerké.
The seat of the Syriac Catholic Patriarchate is in Charfet

OK, thank you.

I actually gave the Proper eparchies of the Marnonite, Syrian, and Greek-Melkite Catholic Patriarchs.