Paranoid Schizophrenic Saints?

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Good morning, Ghosty,

quote: Ghosty
…I tend to get into a pretty clinical mode when posting on the forums
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I tend to flip into the didactic mode.:o Sometimes it takes
an hour, after discussions here, to settle back into the
good ol’ reen mode. 🙂

Thank you for your offer of prayers, Ghosty, and I’d be
pleased if you’d say one for me.
No hard feelings, and no insult intended nor taken 👋
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I’m so glad, and I do apologize for the “…comfortably
situated in a peanut shell” gem. It sure doesn’t apply
to you, good Ghosty.

God love you, :yup:

reen12
 
I would posit that the person who wrote that has his own fear of the truth about the saints. Paranoid schiz is an easy cop out for him. Secondly, it’s not a cookie cutter diagnosis that you can slap on based on a few annecdotal symptoms. Third, let’s say that he is right, how much more that glory of God that he chose even people with mental illness to show us how to conduct our lives. Does the author believe that folks with mental illness are unworthy of sainthood?
 
Hi, StCsDavid,

quote: StCsDavid
Third, let’s say that he is right, how much more that glory of God that he chose even people with mental illness to show us how to conduct our lives. Does the author believe that folks with mental illness are unworthy of sainthood?
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I think, too, of: “God has chosen what is weak in this
world to demonstrate His glory.” [paraphrase]

But, as Ghosty said:

quote: Ghosty
Too often the cynical secular world lumps the two together, doing a diservice to both groups.
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Best,
reen12
 
ElizabethJoy said:
It seems pretty clear that this person hasn’t read the actual writings of these Saints - only read* about* them. :rolleyes:

But when you don’t have to do any real research regarding your subject matter, it sure makes it faster and easier to promote an agenda.

“Lord make me an instrument of your peace - where there is hate, let me sow love.”

Yah, that’s really psychotic, hm? 😉
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SteveJM:
There is one small problem with ElizabethJoy’s post: The “Peace Prayer” popularly attributed to St. Francis was not actually written by St. Francis. While a volunteer at Old Mission Santa Barbara I was informed of this by a Friar. I learned that the oldest copy of the prayer dates to the late nineteenth or early twentieth century. In fact, one friar even told me that Francis wasn’t “quite right” (which does not mean that he was paranoid schizophrenic, of course.) And yes, I read the actual writings of the saint. I have on my bookshelf the recently published three volume work, St. Francis: Early Documents, with certain selected passages bookmarked. Anyway, sorry to say, “The Peace Prayer” cannot be found in that collection .
 
SteveJM said:
There is one small problem with ElizabethJoy’s post: The “Peace Prayer” popularly attributed to St. Francis was not actually written by St. Francis. While a volunteer at Old Mission Santa Barbara I was informed of this by a Friar. I learned that the oldest copy of the prayer dates to the late nineteenth or early twentieth century. In fact, one friar even told me that Francis wasn’t “quite right” (which does not mean that he was paranoid schizophrenic, of course.) And yes, I read the actual writings of the saint. I have on my bookshelf the recently published three volume work, St. Francis: Early Documents, with certain selected passages bookmarked. Anyway, sorry to say, “The Peace Prayer” cannot be found in that collection .
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This page notes:

This prayer has long been attributed to St. Francis of Assisi. Indeed, in the minds of many people it is synonymous with the good saint. Regrettably, however, no matter how Francis-like and however so much it captures what St. Francis felt and lived for, it was never written by him. A survey of the collections of St. Francis’ writings will reveal that it is not a part of the corpus of his writings.

All the evidence points to a composition sometime in the early 20th century. There are no pre-20th century prayer books in which it appears in any form. The first known printed copy of the prayer appears in a small 20th century Italian prayer book and therein the prayer is ascribed to William the Norman. A holy card from later on has it ascribed to William the Conqueror. It was not until sometime in the middle of the 20th century that it was first attributed to St. Francis. There is some evidence that Cardinal Spellman is the one who is responsible for the title. There is evidence that he came across the prayer in Italy, brought it back with him to the United States, and had it printed under the title “Prayer of St. Francis”.

Despite its recent origins, it does stand as one of the great prayers composed down through the ages. The English text is very popular, appearing on a considerable number of web pages and in recent prayer books. It also appears in several hymnals.

EDIT: Seven year-old thread…:eek:
 
patrick457 said:
This page notes:

This prayer has long been attributed to St. Francis of Assisi. Indeed, in the minds of many people it is synonymous with the good saint. Regrettably, however, no matter how Francis-like and however so much it captures what St. Francis felt and lived for, it was never written by him. A survey of the collections of St. Francis’ writings will reveal that it is not a part of the corpus of his writings.

All the evidence points to a composition sometime in the early 20th century. There are no pre-20th century prayer books in which it appears in any form. The first known printed copy of the prayer appears in a small 20th century Italian prayer book and therein the prayer is ascribed to William the Norman. A holy card from later on has it ascribed to William the Conqueror. It was not until sometime in the middle of the 20th century that it was first attributed to St. Francis. There is some evidence that Cardinal Spellman is the one who is responsible for the title. There is evidence that he came across the prayer in Italy, brought it back with him to the United States, and had it printed under the title “Prayer of St. Francis”.

Despite its recent origins, it does stand as one of the great prayers composed down through the ages. The English text is very popular, appearing on a considerable number of web pages and in recent prayer books. It also appears in several hymnals.

EDIT: Seven year-old thread…:eek:
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SteveJM:
There is no denying that the prayer is in the spirit of St. Francis. The problem is its use as a proof of Francis’ mental health, given that it is very unlikely that he actually wrote it.
 
i have noticed in this forum , that people who find something uncomfortable, immediately revert to shooting the messenger. as catholics we should always be seeking the truth, not trying to hide it if it is uncomfortable.
unfortunately many of the ‘saints’ did show psychotic symptoms.
some of the popes had mistresses.
some priests appear to think that paedophilia is just a peccadillo that you simply confess.
too many catholics appear to think that all catholics should continue wearing blinkers.
honesty demands that we accept that not all about catholicism is perfect. or true
 
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