Parents position on drinking

[CatholicRaven]

Yeah, but what’s the point of drinking at all if you can’t go beyond 1-2? I would say just don’t drink at all at that point, you’re just teasing yourself, when you could be having 4-6+ and actually enjoying yourself.

Not true for everyone. When I turned 21, I quickly found that, for me, more than a couple drinks is not really enjoyable–the alcohol just fooled me into thinking that everyone around me was having fun, and expected me to have fun. I giggled at everything and appeared to be having a great time, but later, I just felt like an idiot for the way I’d acted–not to mention, the giggling was a sort of “mask” for the icky, depressed way that much alcohol made me feel on the inside.

In hindsight I could see that it could have really been fun without the drunkenness (or even just “tipsy-ness”). And sometimes my behavior was actually ruining the fun for others, and I felt bad for my sober friends who had to deal with me. Thankfully, I’ve found that 1 or 2 tasty drinks can be perfectly relaxing and enjoyable. I have real fun. And–bonus!–I don’t wake up feeling sick and stupid.

And, I know this isn’t what VLM was saying, but just to be clear: if you can’t enjoy yourself without at least 4 drinks, there’s something wrong. It might be alcoholism, it might be the people you’re hanging out with, it might be depression, it might just be that you’re overly tired, it might be something else. But no one should need to get drunk to have fun.

OP, not drinking (or hardly drinking) until you’re 21 isn’t going to make you an alcoholic when you hit 21. It just isn’t.

I absolutely agree!

Having your first drink on your 21st birthday doesn’t mean you have to go overboard or turn into an alcoholic because there’s no parental supervision. And it goes the other way too: those who are allowed to drink with parental supervision before they are 21 are not automatically responsible drinkers when they turn 21.

Part of being a mature adult is taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions and choices. Not blaming parents (or anyone else) for your mistakes. It’s also about respecting others, so if Mom and Dad say no alcohol for minors (or for anyone) in their household, respect that rule as long as you live there and whenever you’re there for a visit. It’s the mature thing to do.

You can certainly learn moderation and self-control now, in other ways, and then when you turn 21, you can use those same skills with alcohol.

I think you’ll do fine.

 

[GGates]

Yeah, but what’s the point of drinking at all if you can’t go beyond 1-2? I would say just don’t drink at all at that point, you’re just teasing yourself, when you could be having 4-6+ and actually enjoying yourself.

OP, not drinking (or hardly drinking) until you’re 21 isn’t going to make you an alcoholic when you hit 21. It just isn’t.

Your parents (well, your father at least) sounds like he has a good reason to avoid alcohol and I think you should try to understand where he’s coming from. He probably shouldn’t be telling you not to drink at all, but hopefully you can at least see why he would be thinking that way.

That’s silly. It’s no more a red flag for alcoholism than liking ice cream is for becoming obese. There’s nothing wrong with liking either.

I definitely agree, my mom was not in danger and shes always about moderation, my father though has not had alcohol for over 20 years, with the exception of a wedding where he had a few sips of champagne. Both my parents are strong willed with strong resolve. I think my father would be fine to talk to even if he doesn’t teach me.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Whoa. 4-6 drinks is binge drinking–not good for you. See the CDC web site: cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm. And one-two drinks is a fine quantity in which to enjoy alcohol, especially if it’s something tasty.

I don’t think the article you shared says what you think it says. Either that or I misunderstood your point. I will quote from it:

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 grams percent or above. This typically happens when men consume 5 or more drinks, and when women consume 4 or more drinks, in about 2 hours.

It says for men 5 or more drinks in about 2 hours, not in an evening. By this definition, 4-6+ in an evening is probably not binge drinking, depending on how it’s spread out.

Much will depend on your weight, of course, as well as other factors. A friend of my wife is just 100 pounds, so she can’t usually have more than a couple drinks even in an entire night.

All this aside, if you’re having that many drinks on a frequent basis, then sure. That’s quite different than going out and enjoying yourself once a month or every other month, etc.

CatholicRaven:

Not true for everyone. When I turned 21, I quickly found that, for me, more than a couple drinks is not really enjoyable–the alcohol just fooled me into thinking that everyone around me was having fun, and expected me to have fun. I giggled at everything and appeared to be having a great time, but later, I just felt like an idiot for the way I’d acted–not to mention, the giggling was a sort of “mask” for the icky, depressed way that much alcohol made me feel on the inside.

In hindsight I could see that it could have really been fun without the drunkenness (or even just “tipsy-ness”). And sometimes my behavior was actually ruining the fun for others, and I felt bad for my sober friends who had to deal with me. Thankfully, I’ve found that 1 or 2 tasty drinks can be perfectly relaxing and enjoyable. I have real fun. And–bonus!–I don’t wake up feeling sick and stupid.

And, I know this isn’t what VLM was saying, but just to be clear: if you can’t enjoy yourself without at least 4 drinks, there’s something wrong. It might be alcoholism, it might be the people you’re hanging out with, it might be depression, it might just be that you’re overly tired, it might be something else. But no one should need to get drunk to have fun.

Thanks for sharing your story. I got way off track with that joke about it being a “tease”–the truth is, for me, it would be a tease. But you remind us of a very important point which is that everyone experiences alcohol differently. I’ve had nights where I’ve bought a 12 pack, drank 7 of 'em with my wife, didn’t regret anything in the morning and then had to throw out the rest because they sat in the fridge for 6 months without being touched. For some people, simply having a drink lying around will drive them crazy. For some, 1 or 2 is more than enough. For others, 1 or 2 is even too many. We’ve got a friend that we would never take a sip around, he had to stay with us for a week and we threw out what little alcohol we had because we knew what a temptation it would be for him. Everyone’s definitely different on this.

 

[Cat]

Yeah, but what’s the point of drinking at all if you can’t go beyond 1-2? I would say just don’t drink at all at that point, you’re just teasing yourself, when you could be having 4-6+ and actually enjoying yourself.

Are you serious? Or is this tongue-in-cheek?

You do know that both the Bible and the Church condemn drunkenness, don’t you?

And although some people claim to be able to drink 4-6 beers, glasses of wine, or mixed drinks, and not be drunk, most people cannot do this. Most people would be on the floor, and that’s where they need to be, and hopefully, for God’s sake and the rest of us, not driving a car.

All the women’s magazines (secular) state that a woman who expects to drive should have ONE beer OR ONE glass of wine (4 oz), or ONE mixed drink/cocktail, sipped slowly, and that she should allow at least ONE FULL HOUR to pass after drinking this ONE drink before getting behind the wheel of a car.

I don’t read men’s secular magazines, so not sure what they would recommend. But I’ll bet it’s not 4-6 drinks.

Besides, it costs a lot. Not everyone is rich like you apparently are. Unless you live near a bar that gives free re-fills like the restaurants do with soda and coffee?

Please tell me you’re kidding.

, not drinking (or hardly drinking) until you’re 21 isn’t going to make you an alcoholic when you hit 21. It just isn’t.

I agree with this. Most people who wait to start drinking until they are 21 do not abuse alcohol. I still think the OP is using this as an excuse for his inability to drink alcohol responsibly, and I’m glad the OP is seeing a counselor.

Your parents (well, your father at least) sounds like he has a good reason to avoid alcohol and I think you should try to understand where he’s coming from. He probably shouldn’t be telling you not to drink at all, but hopefully you can at least see why he would be thinking that way.

Parents have every right to tell their children to not drink at all. My husband and I tell our daughters not to drink. They don’t listen to us, but we still tell them anyway and we will probably never stop telling them because we see no good in alcohol use and much bad. I pray that neither of them inherited that alcoholic gene, although considering how addicted they both are to other substances (soft), it’s possible.

 

[Sunbreak]

Whether or not parents allow you to drink before age 21 really has nothing to do with your ability to drink responsibly once you reach age 21. Most parents that allow underage children to drink alcohol at home will only let them have one drink on a special occasion like New Year’s Eve or at a meal. So, it’s not like they are allowing the kids to drink as much as they want until they find their tolerance for alcohol. If you keep your drinking at age 21 to one or two drinks for the evening and don’t feel like you have to drink every day, you are not likely to have any problems with alcohol.

 

[vsedriver]

GG, I’ll just say this. In general, if more young adults and teens were introduced to alcohol with the supervision of the parents and were taught how to drink in moderation and normally, we wouldn’t have the ridiculous binge-drinking epidemic we have in this country. Raising the drinking age has not reduced drunk driving incidents and has only caused even more alcohol related problems.

My parents gave me my first drink. All my siblings and I were taught how to drink socially. Alcohol has been present at all my family parties and celebrations but no one has ever gotten drunk.

My youngest son turned 21 yesterday. I taught both of my children how to drink. My older son age 22, got passed out drunk for the first time last month. It didn’t go well and he swears it will not happen again. I’m sure it won’t. But I agree, parents need to teach children how to deal with the temptations in life, not hide them from view.

If you are inexperienced, here is a good rule of thumb, don’t drink more than two alcoholic drinks in an evening. Carry a mostly empty glass or keep adding ice and stretch it out. Don’t be afraid to say you’ve had enough.

 

[GGates]

My parents gave me my first drink. All my siblings and I were taught how to drink socially. Alcohol has been present at all my family parties and celebrations but no one has ever gotten drunk.

My youngest son turned 21 yesterday. I taught both of my children how to drink. My older son age 22, got passed out drunk for the first time last month. It didn’t go well and he swears it will not happen again. I’m sure it won’t. But I agree, parents need to teach children how to deal with the temptations in life, not hide them from view.

If you are inexperienced, here is a good rule of thumb, don’t drink more than two alcoholic drinks in an evening. Carry a mostly empty glass or keep adding ice and stretch it out. Don’t be afraid to say you’ve had enough.

I completely agree with this. From what I have experienced, it seems that children follow the example of their parents and the people that they are permitted to hang around. There is a reason why an alcoholic father that drinks that way in front of his children greatly increases their risk of becoming alcoholic. Same with abuse. It is by example that we learn. If there is a void left because they never taught anything then the influences that you see other than your parents will be your source of information on how to drink.

 

[psr13]

The biggest alcoholics I’ve ever known started drinking before age 21, and the most moderate drinkers have all started at 21 or later. Not drinking until you turn 21 is not going to make you an alcoholic. Please, take some responsibility here. Practice moderation, and don’t blame your parents.

How did our family (immediate and extended) model proper drinking habits? We saw the adults drinking in social gatherings and not getting drunk. The underage people never even asked for a drink, and only one of the people of my generation in my family has had a drinking problem (among many problems).

 

[Svar]

@ Cat

"Besides, it costs a lot. Not everyone is rich like you apparently are. Unless you live near a bar that gives free re-fills like the restaurants do with soda and coffee? "

I don’t get where you get this idea from. Liquor and beer is not that expensive and people in college barely drink in bars where alcohol is expensive.

 

[Cat]

@ Cat

"Besides, it costs a lot. Not everyone is rich like you apparently are. Unless you live near a bar that gives free re-fills like the restaurants do with soda and coffee? "

I don’t get where you get this idea from. Liquor and beer is not that expensive and people in college barely drink in bars where alcohol is expensive.

??

How much does a beer cost where you live? How much is a glass of wine? How much is a mixed drink?

 

[Svar]

A six pack of shiner costs about 10 dollars. Cheaper swill goes for 5. A 750ml bottle of liquor can go from 5 for absolute rotgut to about 20 dollars for decent stuff.

Wine I don’t know. I don’t really drink wine. As for mixed drinks, I guess however much the liquor and your type of mixer costs together.

Remember I’m talking about drinking outside of bars.

 

[pensmama87]

??

How much does a beer cost where you live? How much is a glass of wine? How much is a mixed drink?

I think Svar is saying that alcohol is much less expensive when purchased to be consumed at home, rather than in a bar. There was a show on SpikeTV I watched a few times called “Bar Rescue,” and the main take-away I’ve learned from that show is that people should never drink at a bar, because the profit margin on alcohol is absolutely insane, especially on liquor. I can make a nice cocktail at home for about 50 cents -$1.50 depending on what I am making, that would easily cost $8-$15 at a bar. The profit margin on beer and wine is less, but still double or triple the cost of buying it yourself to consume at home, and you don’t have to worry about transport home. But yes, even if you buy to consume at home, heavy drinking is like smoking - you might as well just throw money down the toilet. (IMO, you can add buying prepared coffee or eating lunch out every workday to that list - as a once in a while treat, OK, but every day and you’re talking about a serious chunk of change!)

 

[acadiANNA]

Binge drinking can be cardio-toxic. Heart attacks are most occurrent on December 25th, 26th, and January 1st. So reports Dr. Corey Hebert, 11/30/14.

 

[Cat]

I think Svar is saying that alcohol is much less expensive when purchased to be consumed at home, rather than in a bar. There was a show on SpikeTV I watched a few times called “Bar Rescue,” and the main take-away I’ve learned from that show is that people should never drink at a bar, because the profit margin on alcohol is absolutely insane, especially on liquor. I can make a nice cocktail at home for about 50 cents -$1.50 depending on what I am making, that would easily cost $8-$15 at a bar. The profit margin on beer and wine is less, but still double or triple the cost of buying it yourself to consume at home, and you don’t have to worry about transport home. But yes, even if you buy to consume at home, heavy drinking is like smoking - you might as well just throw money down the toilet. (IMO, you can add buying prepared coffee or eating lunch out every workday to that list - as a once in a while treat, OK, but every day and you’re talking about a serious chunk of change!)

Thanks, I see what you’re saying. Soda (pop) is the same way–we can buy a six-pack of 16 oz bottles for $2.00, but in a restaurant, one 16-oz soda costs $2.00 or more. Although I can drink endless refills of soda (diet), most people can only handle 16 oz, so they are getting really hosed by that restaurant charge.

Actually, considering that soda is 95 % water, we’re all getting hosed! But I consider it worth it.

My fear is this–for someone like the OP, who has trouble with binge drinking, I think it would be dangerous to drink at home because you may not have anyone to put the kibosh on the binge-ing. You can just keep opening bottle after bottle and stashing the empties out in the garage in the recycling bin so no one will know how much you have consumed. But in a restaurant or bar, there are other people (hopefully friends who are with you) around to tell to take it easy, and the bartenders are supposed to be keeping an eye on people who seem to be over-doing it. And of course, it costs too much to just keep drinking endlessly.

 

[GGates]

for someone like the OP, who has trouble with binge drinking

I didn’t say I have trouble with it. Just want to clarify that. I’ve never had drinks excessively.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Are you serious?

Yes and no. Everyone interacts differently with alcohol.

You do know that both the Bible and the Church condemn drunkenness, don’t you?

The Bible says quite a bit about drinking, much of which is negative and some of which is actually quite positive. I’d be happy to discuss it with you, but it seems easier to just look at Church teaching since it presents a single, coherent view on the matter.

Here’s an article from Catholic Answers on this particular subject. I mostly agree with this article, so I’m not too worried about being at odds with the Church on the matter.

And although some people claim to be able to drink 4-6 beers, glasses of wine, or mixed drinks, and not be drunk, most people cannot do this.

Depending on what you mean by “drunk” and depending on the time frame involved, it is absolutely possible to have 4-6 drinks without being drunk. I’m assuming that by “drunk” you do not mean “feeling it in any way whatsoever.”

Most people would be on the floor, and that’s where they need to be, and hopefully, for God’s sake and the rest of us, not driving a car.

Again, depending on the person, and depending on the time frame. If I had 6 drinks in an hour, yeah, I’d hit the ground. 6 drinks in 4 or 5 hours? Not at all.

And what does driving a car have to do with this? No one’s telling anyone to have 6 drinks in one evening and then get behind the wheel of a car. That’s insane. Having 6 drinks in one evening has about as much to do with reckless driving as pulling an all nighter does. Don’t do either if you’ve got a car to operate. Common sense.

All the women’s magazines (secular) state that a woman who expects to drive should have ONE beer OR ONE glass of wine (4 oz), or ONE mixed drink/cocktail, sipped slowly, and that she should allow at least ONE FULL HOUR to pass after drinking this ONE drink before getting behind the wheel of a car.

I don’t read men’s secular magazines, so not sure what they would recommend. But I’ll bet it’s not 4-6 drinks.

I’m going to have to apologize because I do not want you to take this the wrong way but I simply do not understand what relevance you think any of that has to what I said. Please elaborate.

Besides, it costs a lot. Not everyone is rich like you apparently are. Unless you live near a bar that gives free re-fills like the restaurants do with soda and coffee?

Please tell me you’re kidding.

Well, I live within commuter distance of New York City, so nothing is cheap here in comparison with other places. We tend to earn more, also, though not in my particular line of work.

Anyway, drinking with friends at a house party is free or cheap. Most weddings here have open bars, so drinks are basically a $1 tip each. Drinking at a bar, club or restaurant is pretty pricey at about $5 per drink, but even with 4 or 5 drinks that’s only $20 or $25.

Including all of those situations (parties, weddings, bar nights for someone’s birthday, etc.), I only drink maybe… I don’t know, 5-10 times a year. Definitely not more than once a month. So I doubt that I’ve ever spent more than $200 in a single year on drinking. This is another thing that depends on your definitions. If you define $200 a year as rich, then sure. I don’t.

I agree with this. Most people who wait to start drinking until they are 21 do not abuse alcohol. I still think the OP is using this as an excuse for his inability to drink alcohol responsibly, and I’m glad the OP is seeing a counselor.

Yes, I just can’t see why waiting until your older to drink would have a negative effect on you. I suppose it could make you unprepared for what to expect when you are drinking, but at least you have a more adult mind. If you start drinking when you’re 10 or 12, you probably don’t understand the consequences it might have. Depending on your upbringing, of course… don’t think that a parent who lets his/her child take a sip of wine at that age is hurting them.

Parents have every right to tell their children to not drink at all. My husband and I tell our daughters not to drink. They don’t listen to us, but we still tell them anyway and we will probably never stop telling them because we see no good in alcohol use and much bad. I pray that neither of them inherited that alcoholic gene, although considering how addicted they both are to other substances (soft), it’s possible.

This is more of a personal disagreement. I don’t think parents should let their own biases and life experiences unduly influence the way they raise their children. Requesting that he abstain from drinking while he is living with them and under the legal drinking age is a completely different matter.