Parish Liturgy Committees

[lyoncoeur]

Please forgive any assumptions I make in this post, but I have an Observation.

When reading the various posts about Liturgical abuses, distressing trends and annoyances in the Liturgy of the Mass, I have noticed one pretty frequently recurring thing… there seems to be a lot of connections to “Parish Liturgy Committees”. Would this be a fair association? If so, isn’t that a good place to start “cleaning” up things? How long has the church had these Committees? Are they really needed? Are they being given too much authority? Are they even required…or is it a vogue trend following some notion that this will make things more democratic…therefore more fair? Do they exist outside the US?..if so to what degree and do they have the same problems?

Sorry, a lot of question in one post.

 

[Orionthehunter]

lyoncoeur:

Please forgive any assumptions I make in this post, but I have an Observation.

When reading the various posts about Liturgical abuses, distressing trends and annoyances in the Liturgy of the Mass, I have noticed one pretty frequently recurring thing… there seems to be a lot of connections to “Parish Liturgy Committees”. Would this be a fair association? If so, isn’t that a good place to start “cleaning” up things? How long has the church had these Committees? Are they really needed? Are they being given too much authority? Are they even required…or is it a vogue trend following some notion that this will make things more democratic…therefore more fair? Do they exist outside the US?..if so to what degree and do they have the same problems?

Sorry, a lot of question in one post.

The only Committee mentioned in Canon Law is the Parish Pastoral Counsel. This counsel is primarily advisory but has some authority as a check on the Priest. When the Priest and Counsel disagree or a problem with the Priest (ie alcoholism, suspicion of pedophilia, or liturgical abuse), they are required to take it to the Bishop. In our diocese (but I don’t believe it is institutionalized in Canon Law), the Bishop requires that there be a Finance Counsel to advise the Priest on financial matters and monitor the financial activities of the Parish. In the event of a suspected problem, the Finance Counsel is also required to alert the Diocese. All other Committees (while potentially advised to exist by the Diocese) are purely advisory to the Priest and these committees (ie Liturgical) can be a subcommittee of the Parish Pastoral Counsel. These non-Canonical committees have no authority and only exist at the direction and for the benefit of the Pastor.

 

[Eileen_T]

We had a new PP appointed to our previous parish and, when he couldn’t get people who were willing to go along with how he wanted things done, scrapped every committee, outside of the Parish Pastoral Counsel, except the Finance Committee.

He wanted to do things his way (liturgical abuses included) with a semblence of lay consultation, failing that he got rid of anyone who disagreed with him. He finally managed to find the people he wanted for a Liturgy Committee.

I can’t say for sure, but it seemed that the primary requirement was that they had never read any Encyclicals, Instructions on the Liturgy, or even knew what the GIRM were.

For example, I, and some others who had done classes (no Catholic school) for years, got replaced in RE. One replacement was the non-Catholic spouse of a parishioner. They scrapped the solid teaching we gave on the Commandments and catechism for some airy-fairy stuff.

 

[AltarMan]

lyoncoeur:

Please forgive any assumptions I make in this post, but I have an Observation.

When reading the various posts about Liturgical abuses, distressing trends and annoyances in the Liturgy of the Mass, I have noticed one pretty frequently recurring thing… there seems to be a lot of connections to “Parish Liturgy Committees”. Would this be a fair association? If so, isn’t that a good place to start “cleaning” up things? How long has the church had these Committees? Are they really needed? Are they being given too much authority? Are they even required…or is it a vogue trend following some notion that this will make things more democratic…therefore more fair? Do they exist outside the US?..if so to what degree and do they have the same problems?

Sorry, a lot of question in one post.

As far as I can tell, the “Liturgy Committee” (LC) of my parish exhibits five extremely distressing qualities:

1 - By and large the members appear terribly formed – they seem poorly educated and trained. They also often exhibit the chracteristics of being “programmed.”

2 - They ensure inbreeding by holding their meetings during working hours – Tuesdays at 10am I believe, when often more able people cannot attend. Neither meeting notices nor minutes are distributed. You cannot attend their meetings as an observer. I have seen outstanding members of the parish refused membership while marginal and extremely political people were invited to join the (currently 100% female membership) group.

3 - Pastors in the past (we are currently without a pastor) have used the LC as an excuse to ignore problems, as in “I brought this up with the LC and they felt there should be no change.”

4 - Here locally the toxic fumes of feminst-sexism, “I should be a priest too” and “the Church is changing” waft from this group. This has died down as we await a new pastor, but you can bet it will resume full-blast just as soon as a new one is assigned to our parish. You cannot imagine the jockeying “for position” that is going on right now while we are pastorless, however.

5 - Again, locally, the LC is full of what I can only characterise as vicious people when it comes to protecting their turf. On more than one occasion I have ignored their “demands” when I was certain the pastor would not “rule” on whatever it was they were making noise about. Their backlash is typically harsh and it can keep others from “doing the right thing.”

Just my observations here locally. Keep in mind that I am a member of a horribly dysfunctional parish. Other parishes may actually have great LCs…

 

[Orionthehunter]

Eileen T:

We had a new PP appointed to our previous parish and, when he couldn’t get people who were willing to go along with how he wanted things done, scrapped every committee, outside of the Parish Pastoral Counsel, except the Finance Committee.

He wanted to do things his way (liturgical abuses included) with a semblence of lay consultation, failing that he got rid of anyone who disagreed with him. He finally managed to find the people he wanted for a Liturgy Committee.

I can’t say for sure, but it seemed that the primary requirement was that they had never read any Encyclicals, Instructions on the Liturgy, or even knew what the GIRM were.

For example, I, and some others who had done classes (no Catholic school) for years, got replaced in RE. One replacement was the non-Catholic spouse of a parishioner. They scrapped the solid teaching we gave on the Commandments and catechism for some airy-fairy stuff.

In our diocese, a new pastor can appoint one hundred percent of the committee membership of all committees (except I believe the Pastoral Council whose members are to be on fixed terms). After the original appointment, the Finance Council members serve on fixed terms. All other Committee members are at the pleasure of the Pastor adn can be replaced anytime by the Pastor. I suggest taht you check w/ the practices of your Diocese to insure your new Pastor is followign the rules that exist for a reason.

In our Diocese, only confirmed Catholics can teach religion. This includes elementary teachers as religion is part of the curriculum. If you are a Jr. or Sr. High teacher, you must either be a confirmed Catholic or not teach any religion or philosophy classes. If you teach science, your curriculum must conform to Catholic Teaching or you face being fired.

 

[threej_lc]

Here’s to a post in favor of liturgy committees.

The purpose of the LC is to help give the priest ideas of how to make the liturgy more beautiful, more accessible to the people, more thematic with the homilies, readings, and seasons. Because the priest is only one man, its helpful to have a committe to provide suggestions.

Unfortunately, LCs have become a think-tank of “How can we abuse the liturgy this week?” I do not blame LCs in general for this. I blame the priests who appoint non-qualified people to the liturgy committees, and then listen to their off-the-wall suggestions instead of overrulling them. No one makes the priest listen to suggestions against Rome other then himself. It can even be helpful to have discenting opinions on an LC, so long as the priest himself is properly formed to understand how to take all opinions in light of what the Church teaches.

I’m on the liturgy committee at my parish. I’m able to help point out what the church does and doesn’t allow, to stem conversation on the topic before it gets started.

Josh

 

[Orionthehunter]

threej_lc:

Here’s to a post in favor of liturgy committees.

The purpose of the LC is to help give the priest ideas of how to make the liturgy more beautiful, more accessible to the people, more thematic with the homilies, readings, and seasons. Because the priest is only one man, its helpful to have a committe to provide suggestions.

Unfortunately, LCs have become a think-tank of “How can we abuse the liturgy this week?” I do not blame LCs in general for this. I blame the priests who appoint non-qualified people to the liturgy committees, and then listen to their off-the-wall suggestions instead of overrulling them. No one makes the priest listen to suggestions against Rome other then himself. It can even be helpful to have discenting opinions on an LC, so long as the priest himself is properly formed to understand how to take all opinions in light of what the Church teaches.

I’m on the liturgy committee at my parish. I’m able to help point out what the church does and doesn’t allow, to stem conversation on the topic before it gets started.

Josh

I too am favor of liturgical committees, adult education committees, evangalization committees, church cleaning and decorating committees, and so on. However, accept for the Pastoral Counsel, all serve at the pleasure of the Pastor, for the benefit of the Pastor and are 100% advisory. They have no authority over the Priest or the faithful. The faithful are required to abide by a committee decision only if it is endorsed specifically or implicitly by the Pastor.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

From a strict canonical sense there is no call or requirement for a Liturgy Committee. Properly used, however, they can be of great benefit to the parish.

We have to remember that the theme of every Mass, the ordinary Sunday Mass, the Weekday Mass, Christmas, a wedding Mass, or a funeral Mass is always the same: the death and resurrection of Jesus. There are “secondary themes” from the season and the readings, and liturgy committes can be helpful in planning the “environment” (decorations, flowers, etc.), the music, and related items. In coordination with the Music Director they can help to select music for the Mass.

Those aspects of the Mass which are dictated by the GIRM or the rubrics in the Missal are not to be affected by the liturgy committe (or priest or deacon or bishop) unless the appropriate authority specifies that an option is available. If an option is available, then the priest may ask for (name removed by moderator)ut from the committee with regard to which option is more in keeping with the secondary theme.

When liturgy committees (or priests or deacons or bishops) start overriding the GIRM or the rubrics that is when we start having liturgical abuses.

Deacon Ed

 

[Eileen_T]

threej_lc:

I’m on the liturgy committee at my parish. I’m able to help point out what the church does and doesn’t allow, to stem conversation on the topic before it gets started.

Yeah, my sister tried this when she was on the LC in her parish but was eventually beaten down and disposed of by the majority vote of those with a liberal agenda.

I think it was Fr Larry Richards who said in one of his talks that the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist. I guess that applies to Liturgy Committees as well.

 

[Mary1973]

IMHO, the purpose of a liturgy committee would be to make sure that the liturgy went smoothly. That is, make sure there are altar servers, lectors, EME’s. If it is a big celebration such as Easter Vigil, they would make sure that there were candles for the faithful and that no one lost the nails for the Easter candle.