Parochial Problems

[slewi]

Some have it better than others, and some have it much worse.

What are some of the problems liturgically you see at your home parish? Please be specific and mention what leads you to believe that what you are writing about is inappropriate.

For my novus ordo parish, father is very reverential. Some of the things I see though are:

1. The servers are horrendous. That will be fixed soon. ( Unable to find much documentation about how servers should behave or what their duties actually are)
2. Most of the congregation does orans. Even the servers. ( It is not a posture reccommended for laity. GIRM)

Stephen

 

[slewi]

C’mon you people! From the amount of complaining that goes on around here I am surprised there aren’t 50 replies by now. Get posting!

I am just looking for the most common things going on at parishes around the country.

Maybe I should have made a poll instead…

S

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Since I attend a TLM parish, we’re pretty short on abuses.

However, two things I notice when I attend the Pauline Mass. First, the loud talking in church before and after Mass. When I was a kid, our parish didn’t have a church yet so we attended the new Mass in a school gymnasium. There wasn’t a peep before or after. If you had to talk, you whispered.

GIRM #45: Even before the celebration itself, it is commendable that silence be observed in the church, in the sacristy, in the vesting room, and in adjacent areas, so that all may dispose themselves to carry out the sacred action in a devout and fitting manner.

The second thing I notice is the complete lack of genuflections when passing in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If I’m lucky, I’ll see someone give a cursory bow.

GIRM #274: Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

I’m not very good at spotting abuses. And, our priests are excellent. But whenever the music selection is “Let There Be Peace on Earth.” I think my ears are being abused. How does that song praise God? There are a couple of others that I cringe at, too. I’m not musical and I’m not traditional, but I really dislike banal music at Mass.

However, this past Sunday I went to two separate Masses at my parish. The Mass with the organist played “Let There…” and some others that I dislike. The other Mass with a guitarist played some beautiful Christmas and Marian hymns.

I often have to sit in the back with my young children. And, I cringe when people walk from the communion line out the door. My kids notice, too. I tell them that we have to assume that they have good excuses, but by the number, it is obviously not true for all.

 

[Joysong]

Slewi:

C’mon you people! From the amount of complaining that goes on around here I am surprised there aren’t 50 replies by now. Get posting!

And this will accomplish what? There’s a saying that St. Francis de Sales wrote in his* Introduction*, that bees gather to suck honey, but wasps gather to suck corruption. Maybe there are more bees than wasps. Praise God!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

What saddened me in our Parish was when Father has asked people to leave in silence and not congregate outside specifically on Good Friday, he is just ignored.

The other thing that has entirely saddened me is that in our parish four of us suffered mental illness, three left The Church entirely because of attitudes (incorrect) within the Parish to mental illness. I did try to get the issue addressed, but it must have seemed unimportant. I did persevere for many years, but now have found that my best move is to another Parish and to maintain anonimity as prime in the interests of being free of complicating factors due to my own illness and attitudes to mental illness generally including it seems to me in some Parishes anyway. I found it best to move away from my Parish of some 21 years. Sad!

Barb - South Australia

 

[slewi]

Well specifically, I want to see what “abuses” are happening in everyone’s parishes. Some people claim abuses, and I want to see what percent actually are, versus what percentage are actually things we just WISH were different for whatever reason (ie ‘when I was a kid, things were different’.)

I have done research on American history for years, and with my return to mother church I thought this would be a good opportunity to use my skills to document what poeple are saying is happening in churches around the country and the world.

But if that makes me a corruption sucking hymenopteran, I do take exception to that and think you should look into peoples true motives before insulting them.

But, other than that, thanks for posting!

S

Joysong:

And this will accomplish what? There’s a saying that St. Francis de Sales wrote in his* Introduction*, that bees gather to suck honey, but wasps gather to suck corruption. Maybe there are more bees than wasps. Praise God!

 

[Joysong]

Dear Slewi,

:bigyikes: I did not realize you would take it personally through my quoting St. Francis’s saying. It was just a possible answer for you to understand the lack of responses, for there have been several indirect comments in this section of the forum lately about inordinant complaining. Could be people took heed, and for that I do sincerely praise God. Your rephrasing of what you hoped to find puts a whole new slant on it, and although it is now hindsight, a clearer explanation may have helped the reader to accomodate you.

As for obtaining an accurate percentage, I doubt this is possible, for those who are entirely content with the way things are, will seldom express it. The only ones you are apt to hear from, since your thread calls for “problems” are those who are unhappy with the staus quo. That’s just human nature. How often does any corporate or religious leader receive accolades for “job well done” as opposed to habitual letters of discontent?

So I hear you saying you want people to speak out so you can do some fact-finding. IMO, that does not eliminate the problems or help people solve them. That is why I believe it will accomplish very little.

Carole

 

[netmilsmom]

slewi:

Well specifically, I want to see what “abuses” are happening in everyone’s parishes. Some people claim abuses, and I want to see what percent actually are, versus what percentage are actually things we just WISH were different for whatever reason (ie ‘when I was a kid, things were different’.)

I have done research on American history for years, and with my return to mother church I thought this would be a good opportunity to use my skills to document what poeple are saying is happening in churches around the country and the world.

But if that makes me a corruption sucking hymenopteran, I do take exception to that and think you should look into peoples true motives before insulting them.

But, other than that, thanks for posting!

S

I think that when the chips are down, when one is looked at as some kind of weirdo because we do things that are historically Catholic and we have followed all avenues to fix things but are ignored, we need a place to vent.
This is it.

That being said,

1. My parish is blessedly abuse free
2. I need to work on not writng everlasting sentances.
   (Yes, I am a homeschooling Mom)

 

[SeekerJen]

JMJ Theresa:

I’m not very good at spotting abuses. And, our priests are excellent. But whenever the music selection is “Let There Be Peace on Earth.” I think my ears are being abused. How does that song praise God? There are a couple of others that I cringe at, too. I’m not musical and I’m not traditional, but I really dislike banal music at Mass.

This song (along with others like it) makes me want to cry. How our choir director can have us go from a Palestrina octavo to this drivel all in one liturgical season is beyond me. Fortunately he doesn’t do it often.

And, I cringe when people walk from the communion line out the door.

Me too. One of my favorite parish memories from a few years back was when a visiting priest from India took a few moments to lecture us on respect for the Eucharist, the Mass, and each other, and how that meant not trotting up the communion line and right out the side door.

 

[Joysong]

I attended mass out of state during the winter months, and I was really pleased that the commentator made a brief announcement after generally bringing news items to the people before mass. “Out of respect for the Eucharist, we ask that you turn off all pagers, and refrain from leaving the church until after the priest has left the altar and the final hymn has been sung.”

Maybe a little note or conversation with your priest about adopting a similar practice would be helpful in solving this problem.

Carole

 

[brotherhrolf]

I am a registered member of the cathedral parish which is 25 miles away from my home. I have been to the parish in which I actually reside about three times. The Saturday afternoon vigil Mass is attended by the elderly. They act as if it is their social club and chat at loud volume while people are still lined up to go to confession. They talk about sales at WalMart and (no I most emphatically AM NOT making this up) their hemerhoids (sp). On the other ocassion, it was turn around and introduce yourself to your neighbor and the “wave” after the Our Father (orans position holding hands and then above the head). The last straw was when the “choir” played “Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord” from Godspel.

When I can’t make it to the cathedral, this parish has a mission in a town about 5 miles east of here. No music. Standard NO mass but you are obviously an “outsider” in this little town and get stared at and questioned after Mass.

 

[MarySon]

Here you go:

1. People talk in church before and after the mass
2. Orans position - holding hand during Our Father and then rising them above heads
3. Communion bread is home made - something brownish - there is even a ministry that takes care of that.
4. Not using a gold or even crystal chalis for the wine. Using 4 identical glass cups.
5. The priest does not make signs of the cross before reading the Gospel
6. The priest does not kiss the Book of Gospel after he is done reading the Gospel
7. Sometimes Eucharistic Ministers distribute communion while the priest sits at the altar (he is not that old)
8. Some funky Our Father tune which concludes with Thy is the Power and the Glory for ever and ever, which causes the prayer that normally follows Our Father to be omitted.

 

[Elzee]

MarySon:

Here you go:
3.** Communion bread is home made - something brownish - there is even a ministry that takes care of that.**

I could be wrong here…maybe Bro Rich is reading…but couldn’t this invalidate the consecration depending on the ingredients? Anyone know?

 

[Fidei_Defensor]

Elzee:

I could be wrong here…maybe Bro Rich is reading…but couldn’t this invalidate the consecration depending on the ingredients? Anyone know?

Yes, if the ingredients include anything other than wheat and water, the consecration is invalid.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Elzee:

I could be wrong here…maybe Bro Rich is reading…but couldn’t this invalidate the consecration depending on the ingredients? Anyone know?

Fidei Defensor:

Yes, if the ingredients include anything other than wheat and water, the consecration is invalid.

This following may also be useful. Someone else may be aware of a more recent statement in regard to additions and will be able to produce it though.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 7 June 4, 1979, to president of NCCB in Canon Law Digest, vol. 8, pp. 578-580: “It may be helpful to note that recipes sent to the Sacred Congregation over the past several years vary greatly in the matter of ‘additions’; where there is question of light additions (e.g. salt, condiments) the matter will be valid but illicit; where there is substitution of all or a large quantity of water by other liquids (e.g. milk, etggs, honey, etc.) the matter will be invalid.”

In translation, canon 924 reads: “§1. The Most Holy Eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed. §2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling. §3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine [de genimine vitis] and not spoiled.”