Part Two -It's getting ugly-my mom

[rayne89]

Part One is here forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11597034#post11597034

So my dad’s visiting nurse came today. My mom ran and hid in her bedroom and told my dad she didn’t want to talk to her. So my dad said “Ok”
The nurse talked with my dad for a long time about what’s been going on. She asked to talk to my mom. My dad told her she doesn’t want to talk. The nurse asked if she could try. He said “Sure, she’s in the bedroom down the hall.” The nurse managed to get her to come out.

My dad said at first she quiet. My mom has a lot of pictures up so my dad started pointing out family members in the pictures, my mom’s sister specifically who is divorced…he’s not dumb, he got her to start talking because my mom loves to brag and it didn’t take long before her paranoid stories were coming out in rapid succession. I want a divorce, my husband and my daughter are always plotting against me etc…she went on for a long time…awesome.:extrahappy: Why the face, we have a medical professional finally who witnessed the crazy. She gave my mom her card and told her she’d like to speak to her again.

Also my dad talked to my mom’s doctor and she said she needs a psychiatrist. She gave him three names. They are all foreign. My mom always wants to know what “nationality” people are. Yep, she doesn’t trust foreigners, unless they are from certain European countries. I looked them up -besides the foreign thing, they don’t have good reviews. I found an office, specifically that treats behavioral issues with all very American looking doctors (yes I know it sounds terrible) that has decent reviews and the medical director wrote a book called “When your adult children break your heart” -that should help get my mom there.

 

[Country_Gal]

Thanks for the update Rayne. Please keep us posted. Hoping for the best for your family.

 

[St_Francis]

Oh, Rayne, I’m happy for you that your familynis getting the help it needs!

 

[Auntie_A]

I can imagine how you feel. This is one of those major hurdles: getting a professional to observe and experience the behaviors that have been holding your family hostage.

Forgive the analogy but I liken it to a malfunctioning car that runs perfectly every time you take it in to the shop. You start worrying that the mechanic (healthcare professional) thinks you are lying or hallucinating, and you worry that things will get worse with no help in sight.

This is a great hurdle.

I’m sure there will be others although I wish there were none, but this is a good thing to celebrate. Keep us posted and you can PM me anytime.

 

[maryjk]

:extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:

I get the happy face.

It is always nice when other see the crazy you have been talking about. Sometimes you wonder if people really believe you.

But when they let loose in front of someone else, happy dances are appropriate.

 

[Xantippe]

Auntie A said:

“This is one of those major hurdles: getting a professional to observe and experience the behaviors that have been holding your family hostage.”

Exactly. We have a troubled relative who used to be able to pull themselves together and present well when talking to a psychiatrist, which was very frustrating for a while. However, with enough experience dealing with this relative, the professionals were no longer fooled.

 

[rayne89]

So called up my dad (he’s turning 83) and asked him out to breakfast for his birthday. He’s hard of hearing so he asked “Tuesday is the appointment with the psychiatrist?” (I’m trying to get us an appt to help us deal with my mom.)
No dad we’d like to take you out to breakfast for your birthday on Tuesday."
“Oh, umm let me check my appt book. Um, mom has a doctor appt at 3:30.”
“Well can you still do breakfast?”
“Oh yes, sure. Do you want me to bring mom along?” He asks sounding uncertain.
“Uh…not particularly.”
“Oh, ok.” Sounding cheerful. Then he explains he’s at “the other house.” (He bought a second house to escape to from time to time after he retired -to get away from my mom.) He says she went crazy last night pounding on the table so hard he thought she was going to break it. “Well anyway” he steers the conversation away from my mom. “Ok, I’ll pick you up at 11:30.”

So its relief for all of us, sadly. My mom rarely gets up before noon -actually before 1 pm. If my mom finds out we went out for his birthday without her it’ll bring on major wrath for my dad -which I don’t want. Right now she and I are not in contact. How crazy is it that we have to hide from my mom?

 

[Auntie_A]

With dementias, certain mental illnesses and other out-of-control behavior, you have to play a game. And normally it would be dishonest but it is mostly a way of withholding something that could trigger an unpleasant event. So you share something mundane that does not cause undue anxiety and appears routine.

As a healthcare worker working with dementia patients I had to improvise a number of comments and explanations to keep the patient in a good state of mind and mood. And I would ask the family and staff to follow through.
For example:
Patient: “Where’s Mary?” (her daughter)
Staff: “Mary called earlier and said to tell you she is out running errands today and she has a dental appointment.”
Patient: “Oh, she’s always busy…”
Staff: “But never too busy to forget to call and let you know what’s up.” Patient: “True…”

Second day-
Staff:“Mary still has a few more errands to run today but she said she would be here by the end of the week.”
Patient: "Why didn’t she call ME? "
Staff: “She did but it was early and you were asleep so she left a message.” etc.

Then when Mary comes in three days later to visit, she says: “Hi, Mom. I finally caught up on those errands…it’s good to see you now.”

It does not matter that those words are true or not; the point is that they give the patient a sense of security: Their family member is not visiting because they are taking care of other business. The patient understands the need for groceries, bills paid, teeth cleaned…The loved one cared enough to let them know and will eventually visit.

I have even written it on a note so that the patient can refer to it throughout the day and stay calm.

It’s a different kind of normal here and when you are family, you feel guilty about everything. But protecting someone from an outburst or triggered event or anxiety is a good thing. Just be consistent and have the family on the same page. Don’t be perfect or you will look too suspicious. Just try to have follow-up and then move on.

I worry about your dad staying elsewhere and your mom staying alone or did I miss something?

 

[rayne89]

With dementias, certain mental illnesses and other out-of-control behavior, you have to play a game. And normally it would be dishonest but it is mostly a way of withholding something that could trigger an unpleasant event. So you share something mundane that does not cause undue anxiety and appears routine.

As a healthcare worker working with dementia patients I had to improvise a number of comments and explanations to keep the patient in a good state of mind and mood. And I would ask the family and staff to follow through.
For example:
Patient: “Where’s Mary?” (her daughter)
Staff: “Mary called earlier and said to tell you she is out running errands today and she has a dental appointment.”
Patient: “Oh, she’s always busy…”
Staff: “But never too busy to forget to call and let you know what’s up.” Patient: “True…”

Second day-
Staff:“Mary still has a few more errands to run today but she said she would be here by the end of the week.”
Patient: "Why didn’t she call ME? "
Staff: “She did but it was early and you were asleep so she left a message.” etc.

Then when Mary comes in three days later to visit, she says: “Hi, Mom. I finally caught up on those errands…it’s good to see you now.”

It does not matter that those words are true or not; the point is that they give the patient a sense of security: Their family member is not visiting because they are taking care of other business. The patient understands the need for groceries, bills paid, teeth cleaned…The loved one cared enough to let them know and will eventually visit.

I have even written it on a note so that the patient can refer to it throughout the day and stay calm.

It’s a different kind of normal here and when you are family, you feel guilty about everything. But protecting someone from an outburst or triggered event or anxiety is a good thing. Just be consistent and have the family on the same page. Don’t be perfect or you will look too suspicious. Just try to have follow-up and then move on.

I worry about your dad staying elsewhere and your mom staying alone or did I miss something?

Thank you so much for your understanding. My mom does not have dementia but most certainly has mental problems. My mom rages at my dad, he does leave to go away to the other house for a couple days to get a break. He will call to check on her even though it means she screams her head off at him. I’m sure she she rages in an empty house too but probably not nearly as long without an audience. There’s only so much abuse a person can take especially at his age. We’re working on getting help from a psychiatrist. My mom’s been this way for at least 30 years but the stress it brings is now causing my dad bad hypertension.

I really want her to be moved to assisted living but its going to be a battle.

 

[Auntie_A]

Once she is connected with a psychiatrist, the battles will be less crazy, and maybe even out of your hands. In general, I have seen that as time goes by, one or the other will need more care and these decisions will then become a necessity.

Another way to look at it, if your dad is an elder and she is aggravating him and his health, she is abusing an elder, even if she is an elder herself. No professional who is a mandated reporter should allow that to continue. Some professional will help you sort out the legalities of placement.

And remember there are levels of assisted living, board and care, etc. If they can afford it, and depending on their needs, maybe they can both live apart, visit each other and have someone as a caregiver who can make “spot checks” on both of them for meals, appointments, home care, etc. You can step in where you want to help and step away where you want as well. It all depends on their needs, and these things can be assessed.

As a therapist, I have been able to assess if someone can manage their own medicine, safety, time, chores, etc. And the results of such a test are not done in black and white/yes or no but in percentages: “Patient requires 10% assistance for setting up meds, cleaning the floor, safety checks, and some appointment management.” versus “Patient requires 75% assistance for meal prep, mobility, self-care, safety, etc” I think you get the idea. This assessment helps you understand what kind of help is needed, how much and for how long, It’s a spectrum and some people regain independence as time goes by; others downward spiral as things get worse.

I think that this all is hard for families, but never as hard as at first, when things are out of control and no one is getting any kind of help.

 

[rayne89]

Well the dreaded endocrinologist appointment was yesterday. I do choose to help her with the management of her diabetes despite all her crazy making. Her doctor has a great reputation but apparently not a lot of experience with the elderly because he rambles off in different directions and makes it hard for my mom to follow what he wants her to do medication wise. This is not her assessment this is mine from going with her to appts over the last several months.

She’s been raging at my dad daily - stll. Birthday breakfast with dad on Tuesday went great (without mom present). So I psyched myself up yesterday, listening to calming classical music on the drive to their house and had my ipod loaded up with relaxing music to pop in my ears if she started going off. I absolutely told myself I would not engage in any argument with her.

Well she was ready and waiting in my dad’s van when I arrived which is a first (she is normally dragging her feet and we always have to rush to try and make the appt on time), the drive was quiet, waiting room quiet, doctors visits she was a perfect angel even bragging about how helpful I am, “you should see the beautiful paper she makes me” (I take notes and than print out a large print sheet of of the doctor’s instructions when we get back to their house and post on the fridge for her to refer to). Not an ounce of annoyance or resentment. Went out to dinner with the folks afterward. Perfectly calm, not a single complaint.

Its the cycle repeating. She goes too far, gets scared I really will cut contact and plays nice for a while. This may sound cold but I’m learning that is her survival mode. I’m sure she’s being nice because she feels she needs me. This is how she sucks me back and when I relax and start letting my guard down -a bomb goes off, usually out of no where. It could be something so small as I used the “wrong” tone of voice.

My dad is supposed to be returning the call from the psychiatrist today to make an appointment for me and him to sit down with for some advice, and I’m going to make sure he follows thru. His doctor has visiting nurses come several times a week which I think is great because it gives him someone to talk to and interrupts my mom’s pattern some. The change in his blood pressure medication is also showing improvement in that area.

And as long has her behavior is the way it was yesterday I will keep in contact. I am determined to get her into assisted living for her own good. If she blows up again (which she will) or tries to drag me in the middle of conflicts she has (creates) with my dad (which she will eventually) I’ll withdraw again. I’ve decided every time it happens I’ll a)try to extremely hard not to take the bait and b) go no contact. She’ll play nice again -because she needs either me or my dad and she’d rather take me. But I’m going to stop trying to placate or “fix” her and start taking care of me.

 

[Auntie_A]

Thanks for the updates. I like your style. You do have a good grasp on the dynamics of her situation. I know that dance too well: putting up a good boundary for a while, then letting down my guard, and the devil breaks through. The only wisdom I’ve found is to either never let down my guard or, if I do, and get stung, then I should pick myself up, forgive all, and start all over again.

Glad things are on an upswing.

 

[Sereta]

Your not going to like what I have to say.

Your being very disrespectful to your mother.
You should never use words like “witnessed the crazy” when referring to your parent and that’s regardless of their behaviour.Or how frustrated you may feel.

It sounds like you have a lot of anger towards your mum.Rage,maybe even hatred almost.
You blame your mother for increasing your dads health problems however if your mum really did have an illness such as Schizoaffective,or Dementia or even combativeness from Hypoglycaemia,these actions are from an illness and not a willful purposeful behaviour.
You need to have greater understanding into why your mum is acting how she is because as long as you think she’s doing because she’s a " nasty individual" then you will remain rageful,feel justified at your anger and actions and the family dynamics will not improve.
This level of anger also suggests you need to watch your own blood pressure in addition to your dads.

Don’t look at anyone as the victim.Neither your dad,you or your mum.
Look at it simply objectively as a family dynamics issue.
You need to make a conscious choice to let go of the intense anger towards your mum even if it seems hard.

It doesn’t seem that it’s a good idea for you to make arrangements regarding appointments as theirs too much animosity between your mum and you.
It also appears that you already are too involved in some ways and that it’s preventing you from looking after you.
Your mum might be depending on you in and unhealthy way and almost like a reversed parent-child role.
You are not responsible for your mum,nor for your dads health but you need to look at your mums “behaviour” as not something intentional or from "wickedness;

Cutting ties off with your mum is not the answer but a change in relationship dynamics is urgently needed.

Do you have any happy memories with your mum or something kind or positive that you can think about her? She mentioned that she has another “nice side”

It doesn’t sound like your mum is paranoid per se,but that she feels powerless and like a victim.Some of her behaviors seem to suggest she’s saying those things to feel as powerful as you/on equal ground with you.
I’m her mind she might perceive your trying to hurt her and then try to get power by saying those things about the teacher saying you were good at coming up with stories etc etc…

What do you hope will be achieved from your mums appointment?
It sounds like it would not be good for you to come with her at first even if she wants you because once I’m there she could change her view.
If your hope was that your mum would be labelled with some mental disorder,or hospitalised or given Antipsychotics and then be different that us very unlikely.
Antipsychotics mostly work for people that have literal paranoia Eg:highly implausible beliefs such as the Cia is poisoning their food etc
Your mums thoughts are not the same type of paranoia.It is more like “my daughter and husband are picking on me…”
What will more likely help your mum is intense cognitive work on perceptions,empathy and how to relate more peacefully with your dad etc…

Your mum not wanting a “foreign” Psychiatrist might sound racist on the surface but it’s not.
Picking doctors wisely is important especially I’m the area of Psychiatry which is a speciality without objective evidence and relies on the pure opinion of the consulting doctor.
This requires wisdom and Prudence I’m choosing.
Not all doctors are there for the right reason,not all foreign training is Same as America and I’m addition some foreign trained doctors still carry with them their previous countries stigmatising attitudes towards people with mental illnesses.
Perhaps your mum had a bad previous experience?
Either way,she’s entitled to see someone she feels comfortable with and can build a trust relationship with.
It’s meant to for her health,her choosing,not something she feels has been pushed on her.

Why does your mum yell at your dad?
Is it because she’s lonely?
Try not to get in the middle or choose sides but remain loving daughter to both and don’t let them draw you in.

I really hope you can work things out with your mum because there’s so much potential and hope.