Participation in the 1962 Latin Mass?

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Hello!
I’m going to a Latin Mass tomorow and I’ve been trying to read up on what to expect. I went a couple of times to the indult in Cincinnati a few years ago, but I was holding a wiggly baby and wasn’t able to follow along at all. So, I want to be as prepared as possible. It’s at Sacred Heart parish in Glasgow. I gather there will be some sort of misalettes with English and Latin.

Anyway, I was just looking up stuff on Wikipedia, and from what I understand, the people in the pews are not expected to pray along? I thought I remember people praying along when I went in Cincinnati. I remember this because I was lost and confused. I don’t have a problem with the prayers that are also in the NO Mass because my parish in Cincinnati celebrated it in Latin. So, while I can’t rattle off the Credo from memory, I’m used to following it along. What confused me at the indult Mass, though, was simply knowing where we were at any given time. But, of course, I was wrestling a baby. Tomorow, I will be going by myself and that won’t be a problem.

Also, I’m not sure I remember… will the Gospel be in the vernacular? I think, based on what I read on Wikipedia, it’s customary for the priest to read a vernacular translation of the Gospel before the homily? Is this the way you usually see it?

I’d appreciate hearing from anyone who regularly attends a Mass that follows the 1962 form. Thanks!

 

[edward_george]

I’m not sure how you’d get the impression that the people are not supposed to pray along–what else is one supposed to do at Mass? Sure, there’s the tired old canard that everyone sat and prayed the Rosary while the priest prayed for the people, but that is an abuse and is not the way to assist at Mass. St. Pius X said that we are “not to pray at Mass, but to pray the Mass.” That’s why you use a missal, so you can follow along with the priest–even the things he’s saying quietly. Personally, I prefer serving, because then I don’t use a missal and I’m right there “in the action” so to speak. But for those in the pews, you are expected to pray along. One of the most beautiful things about the Usus Antiquor of the Roman Rite is that the people are there praying in support of the priest while the priest offers the sacrifice on behalf of those present and the whole Church–it’s evident from the way the Mass is structured.

In some places, the Epistle and Gospel are re-read in the vernacular before the homily–I actually attended a TLM last weekend in South Carolina wherein the priest read the Epistle and Gospel in the vernacular in place of doing them in Latin (not sure if this is licit, so if someone knows, I’d appreciate if you could tell me).

-ACEGC

 

[stmaria]

The Gospel and the Epistle will be read in the vernacular before the sermon. Also the priest will say the beginning of certain prayers in a loud voice. This will help you to follow along and know exactly where the priest is.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

What I meant to say is, the people aren’t expected to pray OUT LOUD along with most of the Mass. That was the impression I got. But, I could swear I remember people doing just that at the indult Mass in Cincinnati. Apparently, there was something called a Dialog Mass in the early 20th century that was sorta popular in some places in Europe and so maybe that’s where the practice comes from?

To what degree do you think the laity of around 1900 were able to follow the Mass?How about earlier than that? I mean, assuming that the laity were literate at all, how much Latin did the average woman in working-class Glasgow know? I honestly have no idea. I would imagine all children were catechized to be able to recite the Our Father, Hail Mary, and the Creed… but I don’t know, really, what that would even mean. To recite something doesn’t mean to understand it, even if they know what the overall meaning of the prayer is. At any rate, being able to recite a few basic prayers wouldn’t translate to being able to understand other Latin things. Because I’ve studied foreign languages a bit I am pretty much able to figure out, at least with the aid of an English gloss, what 99% of the Latin says. I don’t know if it’s really expected of everyone, or to what degree the laity comprehended Latin.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

When someone “follows along” what are they doing, exactly? With the NO, I follow along by listening to and understanding every word said, and sometimes recite it out loud along with everybody else. With a misal, I can read the stuff that the priest is saying quietly. If someone is incapable of actually following the words of the prayers as they are either said (either due to not being able to hear them, or to not being able to keep up with reading the words in the missal), what are they supposed to be thinking about?

When my husband and I were in Italy, we attended Italian Masses and had no problem following along. We recognized the parts of the Mass because A) the gestures and postures, B) the cadence of the prayers, and C) recognizing some scraps or roots of words - Italian being so close to Latin. We sorta privately said the prayers in English under our breaths. I’m sure that one can become as familiar with the traditional Latin Mass, too. But, if we don’t regularly recite the prayers - or even hear them - I don’t know how it would become as familiar as with a form that requires the people to recite prayers out loud.

 

[SemperFidelis]

What I meant to say is, the people aren’t expected to pray OUT LOUD along with most of the Mass.

The laity are allowed to respond in Latin along with the altar boys. These are of course the only times the laity are allowed to respond. Responses like “et cum spiritu tuo” etc. are reponses meant for the altar boys, but can be said by the congregation in the form of a “dialogue” Mass. The Confiteor, and parts like that are however meant only for the altar boys, and not for the congregation, so the congregation doesn’t do all of the altar server responses. Some parishes will have the congregation say the responses, some won’t. Mine does, but you’ll just have to wait to find out when you get there. Following along in a missal is extremely difficult the first couple of times you go to a TLM, especially if they are Low Masses. High Masses are definitely easier to follow along with. However, the more you go the easier it is to follow along. After only a few Low Masses, you shouldn’t have any problems.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Welcome Heaven on Earth…The beloved Latin Mass.

You should pray aloud during the appropriate times (i.e. Credo, Gloria, etc.) and to follow along the rest of the time with your Missal…you should be provided with a Latin/English Missal (if you do not have one already). The Altar Boys provide the responses for you, such as “Et Cum Spiritu Tuo”. As you know, the priest will be facing East with the parishioners…you don’t hear him speaking as well as you can when it is a Novus Ordo and he is facing you…but don’t be discouraged, because there are a lot of clues to let you know where you are during the Mass at all times…such as the Priest Ascending the Altar, the Altar Missal being on the Epistle or the Gospel Side of the Altar, the priest facing you and saying “Oremus”, “Credo in Unum Deum”, or “Gloria in Excelsis Deo”…also the ringing of the Consecration Bells…they will be rang at the Sanctus, when the Priest receives Communion, etc…and they will be rang three times during the Consecration and priest is usually bending down towards the altar as He says the Words of Consecration. Don’t fret…after you go a couple of times, all of these things will become obvious to you and you will be able to know exactly where you are at all times during the Mass and be able to pray along. The whole Mass is in Latin except for the Kyrie, which is the one part that is in Greek.

There will be a Gospel Reading in Latin prior to the readings the Priest will do in the Vernacular. When this occurs, the Altar Boys will move the Missal from the Epistle side to the Gosple side…then the Priest will read the Gospel in Latin. Afterwards, you will have your Vernacular readings from the Ambo, followed by the Homily, and then by the Credo

I wish you the greatest joy when you go…I love the Latin Mass. God Bless you.

Hello!
I’m going to a Latin Mass tomorow and I’ve been trying to read up on what to expect. I went a couple of times to the indult in Cincinnati a few years ago, but I was holding a wiggly baby and wasn’t able to follow along at all. So, I want to be as prepared as possible. It’s at Sacred Heart parish in Glasgow. I gather there will be some sort of misalettes with English and Latin.

Anyway, I was just looking up stuff on Wikipedia, and from what I understand, the people in the pews are not expected to pray along? I thought I remember people praying along when I went in Cincinnati. I remember this because I was lost and confused. I don’t have a problem with the prayers that are also in the NO Mass because my parish in Cincinnati celebrated it in Latin. So, while I can’t rattle off the Credo from memory, I’m used to following it along. What confused me at the indult Mass, though, was simply knowing where we were at any given time. But, of course, I was wrestling a baby. Tomorow, I will be going by myself and that won’t be a problem.

Also, I’m not sure I remember… will the Gospel be in the vernacular? I think, based on what I read on Wikipedia, it’s customary for the priest to read a vernacular translation of the Gospel before the homily? Is this the way you usually see it?

I’d appreciate hearing from anyone who regularly attends a Mass that follows the 1962 form. Thanks!

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Thanks for your responses…
I found out for myself, today, when I went. As it turns out, the congregation says almost nothing. I think maybe there was one “And also with you” (in Latin.) and then some Hails Mary’s after the Mass. I couldn’t hear much of what the priest said, but I was able to follow along pretty well with the missal because I sat up front. It did seem like he spoke up more loudly a couple of times so that we could keep our place.

I don’t consider the Latin Mass “better” than the Novus Ordo. I certainly prefer it to a Novus Ordo with clapping and other annoyances. But, a reverent, basic Novus Ordo is just fine with me.

I talked to some people after the Mass about what is expected of the laity. Some of the older women agreed that, back in the day, your average lay person would not necessarily have been following along, trying to read the prayers the priest was saying at the moment. One said, “Oh, some people had missals to follow along. Some people prayed the rosary. Some people just sat silently, praying to themselves.” I rather like that idea. I do think that the Novus Ordo demands “audience participation.” I like that about it. It has its purpose.

Anyway, I think we’ll be joining this parish, and also attending Novus Ordo Masses locally for a variety of reasons. (Mostly because we’ve got two little monkeys and we both crave the chance to be alone and contemplative at Mass.)