Pater Noster in the Missa Cantata

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Ora_et_Labora_1

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I was wondering, in a Missa Cantata can the congregation sing the Pater Noster along with the priest?
 
TrueLight said:
Except for the “Sed Libera Nos a Malo”.
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Unless I’m quite mistaken, this part is not “sung along” with the priest, but functions as a pseudo-response which is sung by the servers (and congregation, if applicable), but not by the priest himself.
 
MarkThompson said:
Unless I’m quite mistaken, this part is not “sung along” with the priest, but functions as a pseudo-response which is sung by the servers (and congregation, if applicable), but not by the priest himself.
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Yes, it is that type of response. My bad.

I misread the question as the congregants not singing any part of the Pater Noster.
 
Now I’m confused. The congregation can only sing the last line, “Sed libera nos”?
 
Ah, another looking for documentation on everything. sorry, I don’t have any. Its just the way things are done. I don’t question it. Its quite common in the Traditional Latin Mass.

Cheers
 
From De musica sacra et sacra liturgia (SRC, 1958):
  1. Since the Pater Noster is a fitting, and ancient prayer of preparation for Communion, the entire congregation may recite this prayer in unison with the priest in low Masses; the Amen at the end is to be said by all. This is to be done only in Latin, never in the vernacular.
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Based on the above, an argument can me made that at High Mass, the Pater Noster could be sung by the entire assembly.
 
ProVobis said:
Good find. So much for the “no participation was encouraged in the old Mass” argument.
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Here is what Musica Sacra says about singing:
b. Participation of the faithful in sung Mass.
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  1. The more noble form of the Eucharistic celebration is the solemn Mass because in it the solemnities of ceremonies, ministers, and sacred music all combine to express the magnificence of the divine mysteries, and to impress upon the minds of the faithful the devotion with which they should contemplate them. Therefore, we must strive that the faithful have the respect due to this form of worship by properly participating in it in the ways described below.
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  1. In solemn Mass there are three degrees of the participation of the faithful:
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a) First, the congregation can sing the liturgical responses. These are: Amen; Et cum spiritu tuo; Gloria tibi, Domine; Habemus ad Dominum; Dignum et justum est; Sed libera nos a malo; Deo gratias. Every effort must be made that the faithful of the entire world learn to sing these responses.
b) Secondly, the congregation can sing the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, eleison; Gloria in excelsis Deo; Credo; Sanctus-Benedictus; Agnus Dei. Every effort must be made that the faithful learn to sing these parts, particularly according to the simpler Gregorian melodies. But if they are unable to sing all these parts, there is no reason why they cannot sing the easier ones: Kyrie, eleison; Sanctus-Benedictus; Agnus Dei; the choir, then, can sing the Gloria, and Credo. …
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c) Thirdly, if those present are well trained in Gregorian chant, they can sing the parts of the Proper of the Mass. This form of participation should be carried out particularly in religious congregations and seminaries.
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The Pater Noster was sung by the priest. Naturally the abuse was frequent, and the TLM has no mystical power whathsoever to prevent the abuses.
 
corsair said:
Ah, another looking for documentation on everything. sorry, I don’t have any. Its just the way things are done. I don’t question it. Its quite common in the Traditional Latin Mass.
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Excuse me?

I’m not questioning the singing of the Pater Noster by the laity in a Missa Cantata or High Mass. I’m actually quite for it. I had never heard it sung at our Mass except last Sunday (I’ve been going there for a bit over a year now), and was wondering if it was a common practice or not, given that there is only one diocesan Latin Mass in the whole country.
 
Ora_et_Labora said:
Excuse me?

I’m not questioning the singing of the Pater Noster by the laity in a Missa Cantata or High Mass. I’m actually quite for it. I had never heard it sung at our Mass except last Sunday (I’ve been going there for a bit over a year now), and was wondering if it was a common practice or not, given that there is only one diocesan Latin Mass in the whole country.
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It is quite unusual for the faithful to sing the Pater Noster together with the priest in the Traditional Mass. However, it is not unheard of.
 
b. Participation of the faithful in sung Mass.
Click to expand...
  1. The more noble form of the Eucharistic celebration is the solemn Mass because in it the solemnities of ceremonies, ministers, and sacred music all combine to express the magnificence of the divine mysteries, and to impress upon the minds of the faithful the devotion with which they should contemplate them. Therefore, we must strive that the faithful have the respect due to this form of worship by properly participating in it in the ways described below.
Click to expand...
  1. In solemn Mass there are three degrees of the participation of the faithful:
Click to expand...
a) First, the congregation can sing the liturgical responses. These are: Amen; Et cum spiritu tuo; Gloria tibi, Domine; Habemus ad Dominum; Dignum et justum est; Sed libera nos a malo; Deo gratias. Every effort must be made that the faithful of the entire world learn to sing these responses.
b) Secondly, the congregation can sing the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, eleison; Gloria in excelsis Deo; Credo; Sanctus-Benedictus; Agnus Dei. Every effort must be made that the faithful learn to sing these parts, particularly according to the simpler Gregorian melodies. But if they are unable to sing all these parts, there is no reason why they cannot sing the easier ones: Kyrie, eleison; Sanctus-Benedictus; Agnus Dei; the choir, then, can sing the Gloria, and Credo. …
Click to expand...
c) Thirdly, if those present are well trained in Gregorian chant, they can sing the parts of the Proper of the Mass. This form of participation should be carried out particularly in religious congregations and seminaries.
The Pater Noster was sung by the priest. Naturally the abuse was frequent, and the TLM has no mystical power whathsoever to prevent the abuses.
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This is news to me.

I know I have sung the Credo on Sundays or at High Masses and there was a Sunday when we sang the Gloria. But seriously? We can sing the Kyrie and Sanctus?

I haven’t seen those sung at any EF mass I’ve been to.

Although arguably my experience is limited. 😃
 
TrueLight said:
This is news to me.

I know I have sung the Credo on Sundays or at High Masses and there was a Sunday when we sang the Gloria. But seriously? We can sing the Kyrie and Sanctus?

I haven’t seen those sung at any EF mass I’ve been to.

Although arguably my experience is limited. 😃
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The *Kyrie *and Sanctus (and all of the Ordinary of the Mass, for that matter) are sung by the congregarion quite commonly, at least when Masses are chanted.
 
Chatter163 said:
The *Kyrie *and Sanctus (and all of the Ordinary of the Mass, for that matter) are sung by the congregarion quite commonly, at least when Masses are chanted.
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Then I need to find one of those parishes because I am always complaining that the congregation hardly sings.
 
Chatter163 said:
The *Kyrie *and Sanctus (and all of the Ordinary of the Mass, for that matter) are sung by the congregarion quite commonly, at least when Masses are chanted.
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Because of this thread, I sang along with the Agnus Dei since they were singing the one that most Catholics seem to know.

I was the only one singing along with the schola. 😦
 
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