Patriarch Bartholomew to the Roman clergy, “even if slow, the walk towards the unity of our Churches is unstoppable “. "Implementing a project” for a

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It needs to happen already but if Rome wants it to happen quicker they need to be courting Russia a bit more seriously. They’re the most conservative of the Orthodox and Kirill has no patience for relativism.
 
I hope he is right- but the Patriarch is more optimistic than I am.
 
I hope so. Patriarch Bart and Pope Francis seem to get along well, so there’s a start. We need unity right now.
 
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If we can agree on the meaning of Easter, then we should not fall out with each other because we celebrate it on different days.
 
The Russians have no interest in unity with Rome. They want to be on top.
 
It would be wonderful if, at the very least, east and west can come to agreement on the Easter Computus and liturgical calendar. A council in which we set aside all doctrinal disagreements but this.

I’m obviously speaking from a western perspective, but the current Julian calendar seems a problem going forward in the centuries and perhaps millenia to come. The adoption of a more accurate solar calendar, or if perhaps we could agree to some modified Julian calendar that is reset every so often for liturgical use (seems a pain and not necessary if we can truly have the whole Church in agreement on a calendar which is consistent with the secular one, but it’s an option). Some type of new Computus for those still on the Julian calendar seems necessary, and it’d be nice if we could all agree to the same thing.
 
And I’m not saying it has to be the Roman Computus for Easter. Just that it presents an opportunity in which we can have unity on this one thing if East and West come together and discuss it and agree upon it together as one people, at least in this.
 
Rome moving to the Revised Julian calendar might be a good compromise. I thought that Pope Francis eluded to this a few years ago? I could be wrong.

ZP
 
Wesrock said:
It would be wonderful if, at the very least, east and west can come to agreement on the Easter Computus and liturgical calendar.
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That would be the Nicene Council, which did exactly this.

Easter is the Sunday following the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

As this could be difficult to calculate local, after the counsel the astronomers at Alexandria put together tables, which was possible because the equinox, solstice, and the like occurred on known days of the calendared.

However, the secular calendar was off by a bit, and the ecclesiastic equinox drifted away from the actual equinox.

Pope Gregory published a calendar that fixed this–but still (rarely) misses the date.

Personally, I think the solution is to toss the tables entirely and actually make the observation. This will both be accurate and avoid anyone having to lose face . . .

hawk
 
I think agreeing on a common date for Easter would be great, so much so that it wouldn’t bother me personally for Rome just to accept the Eastern date. I do not know the details so I am sure it is more complicated than that.

However, if we did, it does present a slight problem between us and most Protestants.
 
dochawk said:
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Wesrock:
It would be wonderful if, at the very least, east and west can come to agreement on the Easter Computus and liturgical calendar.
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That would be the Nicene Council, which did exactly this.
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Agreed, to a point, but there were issues with the use of the Julian calendar which became apparent over time. I think we would agree in general that the Church (universal) does have the authority to set a new calendar for liturgical use.

Anyway, if we could have a new council, participated in by east and west, if only to establish a new computus, that would be great. Of course, whether we could have such a council and resolve this point without resolving the other disputes first…
 
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Wesrock said:
Agreed, to a point, but there were issues with the use of the Julian calendar which became apparent over time.
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Yes–but that’s not the actual definition.

I am fascinated that East and West have taken the positions they’re in on this–“typically”, I would expect the EO to insist on the words of the counsel, with the West holding either to its tradition or authority. Here, it is the West taking steps to adhere to the council, with many in the east calling the pagan designed Julian calendar the “Holy Calendar” . . .

But, anyway, per the counsel, the calendar, whether Gregorian, Julian, modified Julian, sidereal, or Aztec shouldn’t come into play in setting the date of Pascha. There is room to squabble over where to make the observation of equinox and full move (with the obvious answer being “Jerusalem”).

Oh, the revised Julian calendar fixes Easter, but leaves everything else on the old Julian.

hawk
 
tafan2 said:
I think agreeing on a common date for Easter would be great, so much so that it wouldn’t bother me personally for Rome just to accept the Eastern date. I do not know the details so I am sure it is more complicated than that.

However, if we did, it does present a slight problem between us and most Protestants.
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What method do the Protestants use, other than following Rome?
 
The solution might be simple, let God decide.

Everyone who has a concern for the date of Easter should come together and pray, Catholics, Orthodox, Russians Protestants etc. Once it has been prayed for, put all the choices into a bag and cast lots.

Whatever comes out the bag first sets the future dates, if the disciples can cast lots, so can we.
 
The only time the disciples cast lots was before the sending of the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.
 
When the apostles were not sure who should replace Judas, they fist prayed then they cast lots. They put their trust in the spirit to lead them to truth. We are not sure what date the spirit would like us to celebrate Easter, why not pray and cast lots.

Act 1
23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
We are not sure what date the spirit would like us to celebrate Easter, why not pray and cast lots.
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No.

Just, No.

That is not, in any way, shape, or form, what is going on.

The timing of Pasha was established authoritatively at Nice. The differences are in the use of different secular calendars to implement that authoritative and final decision.

And stated that way, the only solution is to toss the tables and follow the Nicene directive.

hawk
 
dochawk said:
The timing of Pasha was established authoritatively at Nice. The differences are in the use of different secular calendars to implement that authoritative and final decision.

And stated that way, the only solution is to toss the tables and follow the Nicene directive.
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With such passionate feelings on all sides, we remain disunited, we split the 'One Body of our Lord into many factions.

If everyone prayed together before casting lots, we would put our trust in the Holy Spirit; who would then lead us to truth. If the Holy Spirit wanted us to follow the Nicene directive, then the lot would come out as the Holy Spirit intends.
 
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