Patriarchies of the Catholic and Orthodox Church?

[DictatorCzar]

So the weird thing is both churches have dominion over the same areas like Jerusalem, Antioch, and etc. But the Orthodox Church has no claims in Rome. If the church originally had Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Georgia, and Moscow. How does this work with both the churches? There are 2 leaders in the same area which makes no since. In the Catholic Church, the bishops are the successors of the apostles. In the Orthodox Church, the 6 patriarchies are the successors of the apostles. There are other churches like the oriental orthodox that claim that they aren’t eh successors of the apostles. How can this be with all these disputes. Are they all true? Or is it only 1?

 

[CRM_Brother]

There is only one Patriarch with the Apostolic Succession of the Patriarchate. Georgia and Moscow weren’t originally major Patriarchates, they were later considered elevated due to the large amount of Christians which turn to them for guidance. The Primary Patriarchates are: Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Constantinople. These were popularly known as the Pentarchy, although that term didn’t have any real theological meaning. It was more to describe the most important dioceses rather than a theological concept.

Three of these Patriarchates are Petrine (founded by Peter) in origin: Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria.

Of all of these Sees, only one remains uncontested today: Rome.

The multiple Patriarchs in the East occurred through excommunications and separations. A patriarchate does not transfer when a Patriarch is excommunicated. This was a major point when the Patriarchs of Alexandria and Antioch were excommunicated during the Council of Chalcedon. A new legitimate Patriarch was elected, but the excommunicated bishop continued to call himself Patriarch and caused schism. This has happened multiple times over the centuries, causing multiple Patriarchs for the same sees. The Catholic Eastern Patriarchs are a slightly different story. These were groups of Eastern Christians who petitioned for communion with Rome. Rome then established Sees stemming from the Apostolic Succession of the Patriarch of Rome. Those Catholic Patriarchs are the Patriarch of a See for a particular Rite. They are not to be considered the Patriarch of the city, full stop, as they were not officially the Patriarch in communion with the Orthodox Church at the time of their reunification with Rome. These are the case for the Syriac Catholic, Melkite, and Maronite Patriarchs of Antioch.

There are a total of ten Catholic Patriarchs under the Patriarchy of Rome (in order of dignity):

Syraic Catholic Patriarch of Antioch
Maronite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch
Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch
Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria
Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylonia
Armenian Catholic Patriarch of Cilicia

Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem
Latin Patriarch of Venice
Latin Patriarch of Lisbon
Latin Patriarch of the East Indies

 

[Mary888]

There is no salvation without struggle (isra). Just becausr Christian bishops argue does not mean that Christ is not in our midst.

 

[dochawk]

These were groups of Eastern Christians who petitioned for communion with Rome. Rome then established Sees stemming from the Apostolic Succession of the Patriarch of Rome.

That is true forsome of the EC churches, such as Russian Catholics. In other cases, such as Melkite, Ukrainian, and Rutehenian, the entire churches–which already had bishops–entered Communion with Rome.

And then there’s the Italo-Greco-Albanians, when have a couple of diocese in Italy because the East got there before the test did and converted the locals, and the Maronites, who are eastern but were out of contact (as opposed to out of communion).

hawk

 

[CRM_Brother]

I was speaking specifically of Patriarchates which deal with the primacy of the diocese itself.

The Ukranian and Ruthenian Catholic Churches do not have Patriarchs, they have Major Archbishops. These are slightly lower in rank with regards to primacy than Patriarchs.

The Melkite Catholic Church did already have a bishop. He was actually elected by the local clergy to be Patriarch but was never installed, as the Council of Chalcedon states, that the Patriarch of Constantinople must approve the election before they are installed. Only a Papal veto could override this decision, a veto which never came at the time. After the installation of the new Patriarch of Antioch, the bishop who was elected but not installed gathered his flock and petitioned Rome for reunification. A Melkite Patriarchate of Antioch was then established via the Patriarchate of Rome as distinct from the original Patriarchate of Antioch which was established by Peter, himself.

The Italo-Greco-Albanian Catholic Church also does not possess a Patriarchate.

The Patriarch of the Armenian Catholic Church did have some union with Rome during the time of the Kingdom of Cilicia (which is now Lebanon) during the crusades, but this fell away. During that time, the Patriarchate moved back to it’s historical location of Vagharshapat in Armenia. The Patriarch emeritus retired in Cilicia and was granted the dispensation to also use the title Catholicos, despite not being the Patriarch any more. At the time of the schism and reuinification with Rome, Cilicia still was not a Patriarchate, thus the diocese of Cilicia was promoted to the Armenian Catholic Patriarchate of Cilicia by Pope Benedict XIV in 1742.

The Maronites were actually the first to petition the Holy See for a Patriarchate. This even predates the Great Schism. In the 7th century, the Maronite community was being neglected by the Patriarchs of Antioch. Because of this, they elected their own Patriarch. The Eastern Church saw it as a schism and an usurpation of the hierarchy of the Church. The Maronites petitioned the Pope for support and Pope St. Sergius I mediated the conflict by creating the Maronite Patriarchate of Antioch separate from the Patriarchate of Antioch. In this case, the Patriarchal succession stemmed from the Patriarch of Rome in the elevation of the Maronite’s principle diocese to a Patriarchate in a similar way to the Melkite and Armenian Catholic Churches.

The only Eastern Catholic Rite which was headed by a Patriarch at the time of attempted reunification was the Syraic Catholic Church. This is why the current Patriarch is given Pimacy over the other Catholic Patriarchs. Unfortunately, the declaration of unification was not official for 120 years and during that time, the Orthodox Church had excommunicated the Patriarch and his successors and installed a new Patriarch. Thus the separate Syraic Catholic Patriarchate of Antioch was recognized by Pope Pius VI in 1783.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM