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Captain_America
Guest
I bought a used copy of this title; it this something that would cause me to jeopardize my faith?
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utunumsint
Guest
If you take the arguments he is making uncritically, then yes. If you able to look at his arguments critically, ask yourself whether it fits with the evidence we actually have, whether he is imposing his own “Jesus” narrative onto the entire discussion, then probably no.
I would suggest it would be much more profitable for you to read Pope Benedict’s Jesus of Nazareth books first.
God bless,
Ut
I would suggest it would be much more profitable for you to read Pope Benedict’s Jesus of Nazareth books first.
God bless,
Ut
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fhansen
Guest
If it’s true, then its good -whether it’s challenging to your faith or not. If it’s false, then it shouldn’t challenge it anyway.
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BGorski
Guest
Here is a quote from Amazon.com:
" A.N. Wilson, who has written revisionist biographies of Jesus, Tolstoy, and C.S. Lewis, trains his critical eye on the first self-identified Christian writer in Paul: The Mind of the Apostle. Wilson’s book may purport to be a biography of Paul, but it is really an argument about the origin and nature of Christianity."
I don’t think I would read it. There are enough ‘revisionist’ histories out there, The other facts that would stop me is 1) no reader reviews at all, despite the fact that the book has been around for awhile, and 2) the fact that a used copy is $0.01 on the website.
So little time, so many books…Dono’t lose time on the mediocre ones.
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BGorski
Guest
My bad. There are customer reviews out there on the Amazon site. about a third of the 60 liked it giving a 5 star. An equal percentage of reviews did not - 27% 1’s
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fhansen
Guest
Well, I agree with that. My main point is that we don’t need to worry so much about protecting our faith against all these little -or even big- challenges. If our faith can stand up to them then we’re fine anyway; it will actually grow by testing. If it can’t stand up to them then what value is such a “faith” anyway; we’ve still benefited from the challenge by learning the truth. Faith can’t be faked; it’s either based on truth or its not worth keeping.
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St_Francis
Guest
Some people are not knowledgeable or spiritually mature enough to withstand “challenges.”
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fhansen
Guest
Ok, but what, then, do they have to be challenged? I mean, what, exactly, is it that we’d be guarding or protecting?
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St_Francis
Guest
I am growing seedlings. One batch is of a special plant that I want a lot of, so I have been very careful with them. As they germinated, I kept them moist and warm. Then I planted them in special soil and continued to keep them inside.
Now I put them outside for a while each day, extending the time each day, so that they won’t burn in the sun, but they will get used to the weather. The bit of breeze they get in this protected area will strengthen them where a stronger wind might kill them off.
The “challenges” they get come little by little as they grow, because I don’t want to kill any of them by mistake.
Does the fact that they were not ready to go outside when they were seedlings mean they didn’t exist? Or weren’t worth protecting?
No. It just meant they were small and in need of special care, with which I hope they will grow into big strong plants which will generate lots of vegetables.
It’s great that you have a strong faith and the intelligence to see through a lot of the fol-de-rol out there. Not everyone has those particular gifts: for them, too heavy a challenge could confuse them and cause a loss of the “baby faith” they have.
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fhansen
Guest
You may be right-and I’ve been playing a bit of the devil’s advocate here. But your seedling’s challenges are real. Im not sure we can really protect a faith that we might not even have-and even that very thought is self-contradictory. My faith grew as I challenged it. I sought almost ruthlessly for truth, wherever I thought it might be found. I’m honestly not sure that it can be found any other way.
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St_Francis
Guest
When I first started practicing my faith, I read a lot of Catholic books books from which I learned the truth. I didn’t read things that were untrue. There was one teaching which I had trouble understanding and I prayed about that. Had I read some of the material against the Church on that topic, maybe I would never have understood it and come round to the Church’s point of view.
However, I did foray into the area of discussing issues with Protestants and ending up going through the Bible to be able to explain the Church’s point of view. Maybe this is the sort of thing you are talking about? Reading something in order to learn a different point kf view so as to refute it and learn something about one’s faith in that way?
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Captain_America
Guest
I feel it’s eminently sensible to protect yourself from nonsense, particularly academic nonsense.
It is easy for me to be misled when I read in an area in which I am not trained. My background is philosophy and political science, not Roman history, so I am unable to critically assess the author’s work. LIke anything, we have to first rely on a sober adult to steer us in the right direction.
Why jeopardize one’s faith by jumping in without looking?
It is likely that there are a good many books that can turn people aside from faith. . . simply because the readers are unable to argue with the author.
It is easy for me to be misled when I read in an area in which I am not trained. My background is philosophy and political science, not Roman history, so I am unable to critically assess the author’s work. LIke anything, we have to first rely on a sober adult to steer us in the right direction.
Why jeopardize one’s faith by jumping in without looking?
It is likely that there are a good many books that can turn people aside from faith. . . simply because the readers are unable to argue with the author.
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St_Francis
Guest
Exactly.
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schaeffer
Guest
I’ve read it. If you have concern that reading something might jeopardize your faith then I suggest you don’t read it. It has much in it that is likely to challenge things you believe in, and unless you have a lot of other information, sources and knowledge to refute them, you might be left doubting.
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fhansen
Guest
But isnt it sort of paradoxical-to be the both the one being misled ant the one determining that he’s being misled? If you know you’re being misled than you can’t really be misled! And by the same token if you’re not sure whether or not you’re being misled then maybe your being led correctly, led into truth, IOW. I agree that we often need to make quick assessments on things in any case; there’s a lot of nonsense out there not worth our time.
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fhansen
Guest
Yes, I had left the CC early on after being raised Catholic, and many years later I had to be open to Catholic material (after becoming pretty anti-Catholic for a long spell) in order to come to actually believe in the Church’s teachings. At the same time, while I’d been told as a child that JW beliefs were false and Catholicism true, I honestly didn’t know if that was so-until I studied some JW topics, based on their material. While I really didn’t expect to find much of worth there I gave it an honest trial because there were a few things that impressed me about their style: their zeal and the sincerity of people I knew on a friendly basis, and their strong fellowship. But I came to believe that JWs are wrong on their methodology and reasoning and resulting beliefs by looking at what they actually taught, rather than presuming to know. Same with my earlier pursuits, the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, Jesus Seminar trash, etc. To this day I would throw out Catholicism if I believed that it was wrong or that something else taught the truth better or more fully-we have to be that open to truth in order to find it. “All truth is God’s truth”, as Augustine put it. There’s nothing to fear in truth.
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St_Francis
Guest
Isn’t this comment sort of the flip side of what you were saying before
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Bookcat
Guest
No it does not sound like a “sound” work on Paul…etc
Right so I would not suggest that book.
Instead I suggest along with “Jesus of Nazareth” by Pope Benedict XVI (already suggested)
Get his Weds. Audiences on Saint Paul
ignatius.com/Products/SPAUL-A/saint-paul.aspx
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St_Francis
Guest
And you had a very specific goal and were knowledgeable enough to evaluate methodology, reasoning, and resulting beliefs
It is actually *truly shocking *how many people are unable to evaluate things in this way. Even college-educated people are unable to, say, consider an argument in light of what themselves have experienced and know to be true, (Or maybe college-educated people are worse… in which case I shouldn’t be surprised.) much less evaulate a methodology or even check logic.
I have taken people through an argument, point-by-point, and they have agreed with each point but in the end, they refuse to believe what I am saying and can’t even give an argument for that.
So, given my own personal experience, I am very cautious about what I say to people about their reading
So, just out of curiousity, do you consider yourself as someone who believes in Catholicism?
I mean, I consider myself a person who believes because underlying everything else, I believe in the authority of the Catholic Church–and I didn’t always–so whenever something goes against Church teaching, my assumption is that it is wrong.
If I can’t explain why it is wrong, I consider that to be a deficiency in myself and assume that someone else would be able to. I don’t necessarily delve into each and every question to prove them all in order to maintain my belief.
Or maybe my question is how are you open to changing your mind while believing that the truth is found in the Church?
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fhansen
Guest
No.Isn’t this comment sort of the flip side of what you were saying before
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