Pauline theology?

[Austringer]

I’m not sure if this is the right category for this question, but hopefully someone here will be able to help me.

I am having a conversation with an atheist who is an ex-Catholic. She claims that Jesus had “serious misgivings” about founding a Church (though she does not give any evidence to support that) and has talked about “Pauline Theology”. I have no idea what she is talking about. Here is part of her last e-mail:

You will find that it was actually the early Jew converts to Christianity that objected to Pauline Christianity. Nazarenes and Ebionites amongst them. Remember that those who are in authority in the RC Church are unlikely to teach anything critical of Paul.

Does anyone here know what she is talking about?

 

[bmullins]

Pauline theology is a concept that many use to indicate that what Jesus taught and what Paul taught were two different theologies. It’s usually used by those who reject Pauls teachings as authentic and claim that he ‘hijacked’ Jesus message and formed a church. As if Paul jumped on the bandwagon and took a normal, everyday guy and turned him into a god in order to make money or get fame.

It’s essentially trying to say Jesus was just a dude, Paul turned him into a god for his own purposes. Most of them miss the story of how Paul was beheaded by Nero in 60. They just assume Paul went to his death rich, or at least famous.

 

[Austringer]

Thanks, Bmullins –

I wondered if it was something like that. In an earlier e-mail, she had said something to the effect that Paul went along with the ruling powers of his day. I replied that he was jailed, beaten, exiled, thrown off a ship, and finally beheaded – not someone afraid of speaking up.

Do you know where I might find out more about this?

And do you know anthing about the “Nazarenes” and “Ebionites” she mentions?

 

[bmullins]

Wikipedia has a good article on the Ebionites. It will explain to you where she is coming from. It’s article about the Nazarenes is also good information. As it indicates in the articles, many indicate that the Ebionites and the Nazarenes were the same people, but others disagree.

Essentially they were Jewish converts who claimed to follow James, not Paul. They rejected that Jesus was divine, and most rejected Paul and all of his teachings (in particular they felt that you were still under the law and had to follow it, which Paul taught contrary of.)

Here is an article as well on how the early church fathers saw them: Ebionites according to the Church Fathers

 

[DasErlibnis]

Why should we teach anything critical of any of the bible’s writers? And, if course the Jews objected to Paul, he was letting all the Gentiles in! They were having to share their inheritance with people they did not want to share their inheritance with. And this arrogance was precisely what got them in trouble in the first place.

But,maybe you could ask her “if u don’t like Jesus starting a church and a religion, well what, in your infinite wisdom, should he have done?”

Of course, being a smart-elick will get you in trouble. Hehe…

 

[Joe_5859]

The term “Pauline theology” is not only used by those who want to create some sort of artificial distinction between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. The term is also used in biblical studies simply to refer to the major theogical themes that are present in the Pauline letters of the New Testament.

I would ask her to back up any assertions she makes with actual evidence. Don’t allow her to make you do her leg work for her. If she wants you to seriously and honestly consider her arguments, she needs to point you to the sources for them. As you are experiencing, it’s difficult to respond to vague assertions.

 

[DasErlibnis]

Wikipedia has a good article on the Ebionites. It will explain to you where she is coming from. It’s article about the Nazarenes is also good information. As it indicates in the articles, many indicate that the Ebionites and the Nazarenes were the same people, but others disagree.

Essentially they were Jewish converts who claimed to follow James, not Paul. They rejected that Jesus was divine, and most rejected Paul and all of his teachings (in particular they felt that you were still under the law and had to follow it, which Paul taught contrary of.)

Here is an article as well on how the early church fathers saw them: Ebionites according to the Church Fathers

What was the Scripture where Paul thanks God that no one says they are followers of him? He laments that some say they are with John, and some with another apostle, but that we are .all followers of Jesus, and only Jesus, and that’s the way it should be. He’s glad that he.hadn’t baptized anyone. Sounds like this discipleship toward the apostles was a pretty serious problem, but then, if anything was actually written about in those days, it was serious.

 

[Austringer]

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate you all taking the time to help me out.

I’ll keep you posted…

 

[bmullins]

The term “Pauline theology” is not only used by those who want to create some sort of artificial distinction between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. The term is also used in biblical studies simply to refer to the major theogical themes that are present in the Pauline letters of the New Testament.

Yes, I am sorry I should have clarified that. Thank you for catching my error.

What was the Scripture where Paul thanks God that no one says they are followers of him?

1 Corinthians chapter 1, where he thanked God he hadn’t baptized any of them except a few.

One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephasa”; still another, “I follow Christ.” I s Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized intob the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. "