L
Loboto-Me
Guest
Greetings again,
I want to say that I’m still “discussing” religious thoughts on another forum which is non religious. Things are getting better, and I don’ t seem to have to “clean up” after the catholic lady who was making up her own religion and calling it catholic anymore. She doesn’t visit that area of the forums as much.
Anyway, there’s a member who said this and I’d like to know how you would help him out with this question… I’m not “cerebral” enough to help him out on my own
SIMSTER SAID:
At one point in my Christian path, I had questioned the vadality of the “Father” that Jesus always mentioned as being the Judaic God. I understand that Jesus was a Jew and probably a Rabbi. Still, as I exhausted the four gospels, had grown a severe disliking for St. Paul, I could see what I thought were major contrasts in Jesus’ message, Paul’s teachings and the message of the Judaic God. I concluded that it was Paul’s teachings that brought the religion back in line with Judaism, if only because Rome could use the teachings about a God of War and still gain the acceptance of the new Christian movement.
I was headed towards Christian Mysticism and discovered the Gnosis (knowledge) teachings. Well, what are left of them. Rome slaughtered the followers of Gnosticism and nearly all of their texts, long before the Council of Nicaea. The teachings are attributed to Jesus, they are similar to the four gospels, there was much more of a “Jesus” feel to them compared to anything that follows the gospels in the canon. Adding everything together, I found Gnosticism to be very convincing as the “truth” of those times. A better record of what the true message was.
When you’ve studied Gnosticism, the contrast between Jesus and the standard Christian teachings become even more apparent. Any serious “seeker” should at least check that out.
So, from the contrasts between Jesus and the Judaic God, between Jesus and Paul’s later teachings, I conclude that Jesus wasn’t speaking of the Judaic God as his Father at all. From the bible, Jesus speaks of how “their” “God” is not his Father. And that their Father is the “devil”. So the Judaic God is evil, according to Jesus; that’s what he was preaching and that’s what got him killed. Jesus said that their God was a liar and a liar from the beginning. How many lies did the Judaic God tell? I don’t have a count but there seems to be quite a few. Also, the fact that a serpant (a variant of Leviathan) represents the Gnostic God, has led some people to believe the exact thing that Fleabay has stated.
I’ve read and heard lots of apologetics about this question. I’d like to read the personal reasoning from any Christian here that’s willing to answer my questions. I appreciate the four gospels and have a great distaste for Paul’s work. However, use what you will to justify the fact that I’m wrong. Forget that I’m a “weak” atheist and understand that as I was once still a believer, I had came to the conclusion that the bible as we know it is not an accurate portrayal of the supposed Christ. It’s not that I don’t know the bible, it’s just that this possibility jumped out at me and grabbed my attention. Since I thought Paul was a twisted criminal and that the Judaic God really is evil, it wasn’t impossible for me to at least entertain the idea.
The assumption is made that Jesus and his Father are real here.
Is it possible that Jesus did not consider the Judaic God to be the his Father?
Could Jesus’ rebellion have been due to his disgust with the worship and bondage of such an evil and false God?
How much of a contrast do you see in the Judaic God and Jesus? Between Jesus’ words and the later teachings of Paul?
Have you ever studied Gnosticism? If so, what are the chances that Gnostics represent the body of Christ more accurately than Paulinian Christianity?
To clarify, there’s an actual Paulinian sect. I’m not referring to them, I call all Christianity "Paulinian’ if it’s origins begin with Rome. Since there are only four gospels in the canon, any Christian division that uses it, or a slight variation, has origins at Rome in my book.
I want to say that I’m still “discussing” religious thoughts on another forum which is non religious. Things are getting better, and I don’ t seem to have to “clean up” after the catholic lady who was making up her own religion and calling it catholic anymore. She doesn’t visit that area of the forums as much.
Anyway, there’s a member who said this and I’d like to know how you would help him out with this question… I’m not “cerebral” enough to help him out on my own
SIMSTER SAID:
At one point in my Christian path, I had questioned the vadality of the “Father” that Jesus always mentioned as being the Judaic God. I understand that Jesus was a Jew and probably a Rabbi. Still, as I exhausted the four gospels, had grown a severe disliking for St. Paul, I could see what I thought were major contrasts in Jesus’ message, Paul’s teachings and the message of the Judaic God. I concluded that it was Paul’s teachings that brought the religion back in line with Judaism, if only because Rome could use the teachings about a God of War and still gain the acceptance of the new Christian movement.
I was headed towards Christian Mysticism and discovered the Gnosis (knowledge) teachings. Well, what are left of them. Rome slaughtered the followers of Gnosticism and nearly all of their texts, long before the Council of Nicaea. The teachings are attributed to Jesus, they are similar to the four gospels, there was much more of a “Jesus” feel to them compared to anything that follows the gospels in the canon. Adding everything together, I found Gnosticism to be very convincing as the “truth” of those times. A better record of what the true message was.
When you’ve studied Gnosticism, the contrast between Jesus and the standard Christian teachings become even more apparent. Any serious “seeker” should at least check that out.
So, from the contrasts between Jesus and the Judaic God, between Jesus and Paul’s later teachings, I conclude that Jesus wasn’t speaking of the Judaic God as his Father at all. From the bible, Jesus speaks of how “their” “God” is not his Father. And that their Father is the “devil”. So the Judaic God is evil, according to Jesus; that’s what he was preaching and that’s what got him killed. Jesus said that their God was a liar and a liar from the beginning. How many lies did the Judaic God tell? I don’t have a count but there seems to be quite a few. Also, the fact that a serpant (a variant of Leviathan) represents the Gnostic God, has led some people to believe the exact thing that Fleabay has stated.
I’ve read and heard lots of apologetics about this question. I’d like to read the personal reasoning from any Christian here that’s willing to answer my questions. I appreciate the four gospels and have a great distaste for Paul’s work. However, use what you will to justify the fact that I’m wrong. Forget that I’m a “weak” atheist and understand that as I was once still a believer, I had came to the conclusion that the bible as we know it is not an accurate portrayal of the supposed Christ. It’s not that I don’t know the bible, it’s just that this possibility jumped out at me and grabbed my attention. Since I thought Paul was a twisted criminal and that the Judaic God really is evil, it wasn’t impossible for me to at least entertain the idea.
The assumption is made that Jesus and his Father are real here.
Is it possible that Jesus did not consider the Judaic God to be the his Father?
Could Jesus’ rebellion have been due to his disgust with the worship and bondage of such an evil and false God?
How much of a contrast do you see in the Judaic God and Jesus? Between Jesus’ words and the later teachings of Paul?
Have you ever studied Gnosticism? If so, what are the chances that Gnostics represent the body of Christ more accurately than Paulinian Christianity?
To clarify, there’s an actual Paulinian sect. I’m not referring to them, I call all Christianity "Paulinian’ if it’s origins begin with Rome. Since there are only four gospels in the canon, any Christian division that uses it, or a slight variation, has origins at Rome in my book.
