Paul's Conversion

[Randal796]

I’ve seen a couple old threads on this (2004, 2005) but they dealt with a slightly different aspect of it. This is in 2 parts -

Part1
Luke told three versions of Paul’s claimed conversion, and none of the three agree on the details:

Acts 9:3-17 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they heard the voice but saw no one.
Acts 22:6-21 those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice
Acts 26:12-18 **we had all fallen **to the ground, I heard a voice

How is it possible that the same writer, LUKE, could have given conflicting stories?

 

[Randal796]

Part 2

Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

Acts 9:10 disciple at Damascus named Ananias…laid his hands on Saul and said, `Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

How does dead Ananias lay hands on Paul?

 

[runningdude]

Part 2

Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

Acts 9:10 disciple at Damascus named Ananias…laid his hands on Saul and said, `Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

How does dead Ananias lay hands on Paul?

I think its just being told out of order here. Chapter 6 and onwards seems to be telling a concurrent story to the first few chapters. The first few chapters tell Saint Peter’s story, the next few tell Saint Paul’s. Rather than intermingle the two histories, they are told separately.

Thus, while Ananias died at the end of the history written of Saint Peter’s actions, Ananias was simply still alive at the point in time that Saint Paul was traveling through and had his vision.

 

[runningdude]

I’ve seen a couple old threads on this (2004, 2005) but they dealt with a slightly different aspect of it. This is in 2 parts -

Part1
Luke told three versions of Paul’s claimed conversion, and none of the three agree on the details:

Acts 9:3-17 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they heard the voice but saw no one.

This seems to be what really happened. Paul’s traveling companions saw Paul collapse, and heard the voice.

Acts 22:6-21 those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice
Acts 26:12-18 **we had all fallen **to the ground, I heard a voice

These two seemed to describe the content of Paul’s vision. In the vision everyone collapsed, and were deaf to the message (these weren’t real people, just parts of the vision). Saint Paul is told to rise in the vision - though the real travel companions not experiencing the vision saw him on the ground experiencing the vision.

Everyone present heard the voice, though for Paul, it was an intimate moment because in his vision, everyone had collapsed, and he was told to rise and thought he was the only one hearing the message.

You’ll note that these two accounts Paul gave of the vision don’t contradict, but just highlight different details.

How is it possible that the same writer, LUKE, could have given conflicting stories?

I don’t think its a conflict, just an “outsiders” perspective of the incident, watching Paul collapse, and then Saint Paul describing what happened and what he saw when he collapsed.

 

[GEddie]

I think its just being told out of order here. Chapter 6 and onwards seems to be telling a concurrent story to the first few chapters. The first few chapters tell Saint Peter’s story, the next few tell Saint Paul’s. Rather than intermingle the two histories, they are told separately.

Thus, while Ananias died at the end of the history written of Saint Peter’s actions, Ananias was simply still alive at the point in time that Saint Paul was traveling through and had his vision.

What makes you think that the 2 Ananias’ were the same person?

Consider all the Marys there were in our Lord’s life. People did have the same name.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Part 2

Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

Acts 9:10 disciple at Damascus named Ananias…laid his hands on Saul and said, `Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

How does dead Ananias lay hands on Paul?

I think that they are two different men with the same name. Acts 5:5 occurs in Jerusalem; 9:10 occurs in Damascus.

 

[Randal796]

This seems to be what really happened. Paul’s traveling companions saw Paul collapse, and heard the voice.

These two seemed to describe the content of Paul’s vision. In the vision everyone collapsed, and were deaf to the message (these weren’t real people, just parts of the vision). Saint Paul is told to rise in the vision - though the real travel companions not experiencing the vision saw him on the ground experiencing the vision.

Everyone present heard the voice, though for Paul, it was an intimate moment because in his vision, everyone had collapsed, and he was told to rise and thought he was the only one hearing the message.

You’ll note that these two accounts Paul gave of the vision don’t contradict, but just highlight different details.

I don’t think its a conflict, just an “outsiders” perspective of the incident, watching Paul collapse, and then Saint Paul describing what happened and what he saw when he collapsed.

Thanks for responding. I’m kinda having a crisis of faith and need to sort things out. I should also point out that I am begining to have issues with Paul in general.

(these weren’t real people, just parts of the vision).

How do you figure that?

Everyone present heard the voice,

Not in Ch 22. but did not hear the voice…
Did they not hear the voice or not see the light?

Either Paul changed his story or Luke changed it. Odd. People who claim to see the BVM are questioned repeatedly over a period of time. One way the Church knows there honest is that their story never changes. How can there be a lesser requirement for scripture than a BVM aparition?

 

[Randal796]

I think that they are two different men with the same name. Acts 5:5 occurs in Jerusalem; 9:10 occurs in Damascus.

Makes sense. There seem to be a lot of people with the same names. Just wish they had used last names or numbers or something.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

…

Part1
Luke told three versions of Paul’s claimed conversion, and none of the three agree on the details:

Acts 9:3-17 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they heard the voice but saw no one.
Acts 22:6-21 those who were with me saw the light but did not hear the voice
Acts 26:12-18 **we had all fallen **to the ground, I heard a voice …

Acts 9 relates what happened; 22 relates what Paul said in his defense after his arrest; 26 relates his narration to King Agrippa. It accurately relates what happened in the first instance, and what Paul said happened in the other two.

As to the voice, 9 may say they heard the sound of the voice; while 22 may be saying that they did not hear the specific words.

Stood there speechless may just mean that they took no action, without necessarily implying their physical position.

 

[runningdude]

Thanks for responding. I’m kinda having a crisis of faith and need to sort things out. I should also point out that I am begining to have issues with Paul in general.

How do you figure that?

Not in Ch 22. but did not hear the voice…
Did they not hear the voice or not see the light?

Either Paul changed his story or Luke changed it. Odd. People who claim to see the BVM are questioned repeatedly over a period of time. One way the Church knows there honest is that their story never changes. How can there be a lesser requirement for scripture than a BVM aparition?

Keep in mind these are just my “off-the-top-of-my-head” theories. As others said, there could be an even simpler answer that there are just two different Ananias’s.

My other point was that the first quote from Acts seems that one is an out of outsiders who saw Paul collapse, and heard the voice speaking. The other two are Paul recounting what he saw in his vision. The two accounts don’t have to agree because Saint Paul and the others were experiencing different things simultaneously.