K
kindlylight
Guest
Can any LDS inform me of the latest developments regarding the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art Egyptian Papyri discovery in 1966.
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T
Tmaque
Guest
This site has some useful data although it is not LDS and takes the non-LDS position specifically.
irr.org/mit/Book-of-Abraham-page.html
irr.org/mit/Book-of-Abraham-page.html
K
kindlylight
Guest
Thanks Todd, you’re a star. Looks like I’ve got some reading to do!
Peace
Bob.
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
Code:
I had not heard of that discovery, but part of the Pearl of Great Price (the Book of Abraham)was translated from some Egyptian Papyri that came into the hands of Joseph Smith in 1835, containing writings of the patriarch Abraham. The translation was published serially in the Times and Seasons beginning March 1, 1842, at Nauvoo, Illinois. It and other writings including the Articles of Faith(which tells what we believe) make up the Pearl of Great Price, which is one of the 4 standard works of the LDS church.
BJ
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
BJ Colbert:
Just a 101 for me, why is it called the book of abraham? I thought the PoGP was from the parable that Jesus told, how are the two mixed?
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catholic-rcia
Guest
These parables make me think of how I felt when I began to study the Catholic faith. Everything changed in my life. I truly feel as if I have found this treasure. I see my fallen nature where I did not used to see it. I have faith that Christ will throw out the bad in me. The pear of great price is Christ as God the Son, our Savior, the price paid for our salvation was, is so great!
"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure buried in a field, which a person finds and hides again, and out of joy goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.’
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant searching for fine pearls.
When he finds a pearl of great price, he goes and sells all that he has and buys it.’
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net thrown into the sea, which collects fish of every kind.”
“When it is full they haul it ashore and sit down to put what is good into buckets. What is bad they throw away.”
"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure buried in a field, which a person finds and hides again, and out of joy goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.’
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant searching for fine pearls.
When he finds a pearl of great price, he goes and sells all that he has and buys it.’
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net thrown into the sea, which collects fish of every kind.”
“When it is full they haul it ashore and sit down to put what is good into buckets. What is bad they throw away.”
B
BJ_Colbert
Guest
Catholic Dude:
It is written by the patriarch Abraham and tells of God’s communication with him. There are many writings that were not included in the Bible, as the Bible was put together many years after the crucifiction and much was lost, or is not considered to be important. You know when the original bible was put together as it was done by your church, so you can fill in the date. Joseph thought these writings by Abraham were important enough to include in the book with other writings. The Church thought it was important enough to include the book as one of the standard works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints .
It is not the same as the papyri Kindlylight was asking about, as those were discovered in 1966? I have never heard of those papyri. Only the 1835 papyri.
That is all I know on this subject. BJ
I said part of “The Pearl of Great Price” is the Book of Abraham, which is from the Egyptian Papyri that Joseph was given in 1835.
It is written by the patriarch Abraham and tells of God’s communication with him. There are many writings that were not included in the Bible, as the Bible was put together many years after the crucifiction and much was lost, or is not considered to be important. You know when the original bible was put together as it was done by your church, so you can fill in the date. Joseph thought these writings by Abraham were important enough to include in the book with other writings. The Church thought it was important enough to include the book as one of the standard works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints .
It is not the same as the papyri Kindlylight was asking about, as those were discovered in 1966? I have never heard of those papyri. Only the 1835 papyri.
That is all I know on this subject.
BJ
K
kindlylight
Guest
Apparently the LDS Book of Abraham was translated from genuine ancient papyri by Joseph Smith himself. The papyri thought lost turned up in 1966 and when examined by modern Egyptologists was nothing other than a funeral rite to an Egyptian god and nothing at all remotely to do with Abraham.
Joseph wrote the “Book of Abraham” all out in his own hand with links to the old text,also in his own handwriting. How he got whole paragraphs from single Egyptian alphabetic letters is a puzzle to modern scholars. The whole episode must be shattering to LDS and takes some explaining.
See link above from Tmaque.
I cannot copy and paste due to copyright reasons
Peace
Joseph wrote the “Book of Abraham” all out in his own hand with links to the old text,also in his own handwriting. How he got whole paragraphs from single Egyptian alphabetic letters is a puzzle to modern scholars. The whole episode must be shattering to LDS and takes some explaining.
See link above from Tmaque.
I cannot copy and paste due to copyright reasons
Peace
F
flameburns623
Guest
The Pearl of Great Price includes the Book of Abraham, the Book of Moses, and some excerpts from the History of the Church, written by Joseph Smith about his First Vision. Why this Standard Work was named the Pearl of Great Price is not clear to me. At the time that Joseph Smith, by divine power, supposedly ‘translated’ the Book of Abraham from the papyri, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics were considered probably untranslatable. Within a few years of Smith’s revelatory ‘translation’, the Rosetta Stone enabled Champillion to create an accurate translation of Egyptian.
The papyri upon which the Book of Abraham were supposedly partially based were indeed lost for nearly a century and then rediscovered. The translation of them reveals them to be ordinary pages of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Hugh Nibley and other LDS apologists point to what Egyptologists describe as minor distinctions in the specific papyri which Joseph Smith ‘translated by revelation’ as the Book of Abraham point to the possibility that the papyri were written in code. In other words, although they ‘appear’ to be leaves from the Book of the Dead, they are actually encoded revelations to the patriarch Abraham. It is an implausible theory at best, and no evidence exists of which I am aware to demonstrate that this code has been ‘broken’ and that these papyri can be demonstrated to have a secondary ‘translation’ resembling in any way what Joseph Smith foisted upon the world as the “Book of Abraham”. Hugh Nibley is, however an interesting and appealing writer and leaves one longing to believe his efforts to rescue LDS standard works from the ashbin of apocryphal writings.
The papyri upon which the Book of Abraham were supposedly partially based were indeed lost for nearly a century and then rediscovered. The translation of them reveals them to be ordinary pages of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Hugh Nibley and other LDS apologists point to what Egyptologists describe as minor distinctions in the specific papyri which Joseph Smith ‘translated by revelation’ as the Book of Abraham point to the possibility that the papyri were written in code. In other words, although they ‘appear’ to be leaves from the Book of the Dead, they are actually encoded revelations to the patriarch Abraham. It is an implausible theory at best, and no evidence exists of which I am aware to demonstrate that this code has been ‘broken’ and that these papyri can be demonstrated to have a secondary ‘translation’ resembling in any way what Joseph Smith foisted upon the world as the “Book of Abraham”. Hugh Nibley is, however an interesting and appealing writer and leaves one longing to believe his efforts to rescue LDS standard works from the ashbin of apocryphal writings.
K
kindlylight
Guest
If the “Book of Abraham” is totally phoney should the world not know about it instead of giving polite credence to desperate attempts to fight a reargaurd action to make the incredible credible. Mormons in general are nice people but if a seismic fault appears in their Prophet’s writings it’s too much that we should not expect it to be believably defended. Every nuance of Catholic teaching is dissected and examined and rightly so, Catholics welcome genuine inquiry and advances in scholarship. The more the better. The deeper the research and scholarship the more the Catholic Church shines out as The Light of the World. We have nothing to hide.
P
petra
Guest
Amen! None of us ever need fear the Truth.
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