Pentecost Vigil Extended Form

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Zach said:
The article says this Mass is bilingual in English and Spanish. Does this mean every reading and all aspects of the Liturgy are said in both languages? If so with the extra readings it must be a long Mass.
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When the Cathedral Basilica of Sts. Peter and Paul has a “bilingual Mass” usually the second reading in Spanish (and a few others when Easter & Pentecost Vigil) and they will have at least 1 Spanish hymn.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Ok, I went to this just to see what it was.
My hunch was right that it was treated as a Charismatic Mass and primarily advertised to the charismatic community here, not to everybody at large. I could speculate as to why the charismatics seem to want their “privacy” but I’ll skip it. It was mostly just a normal OF Mass with four “First Readings” plus psalms/ responses, plus there was an Epistle and Gospel for a total of 6 readings. Languages were alternated for the readings, which was okay, and even alternated in some of the prayers, which wasn’t so okay - I found that a distraction from prayer. The consecration was done in English, using Eucharistic Prayer 1, the long version.

I would attend a Pentecost Vigil Mass again, but I’d prefer it be all in English and not charismatic next time.
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Did you go to the Cathedral Basilica of Sts. Peter & Paul in Philadelphia? Or somewhere else?
 
I love Fr. Gill… however, when we have a large number of priests who refused to do the “long form” of the Easter Vigil and only do the bare minimum number of readings for the Easter Vigil, you are not going to get them to do the “long form” of the Pentecost Vigil

Also, look how many priests skip the Sequences for the few masses that still have a Sequence ever since the Sequence has been made “optional.”

It’s human nature to do the least required. Many priests pick the options that will make the mass as short as possible, and do not add options that lengthen the mass. 😦
 
If it was a later Mass at the Philadelphia Cathedral they didn’t advertise it much. I couldn’t find anything saying anything about a late Mass. There was no mention of it in the online bulletin. It only listed the regular Mass times. Isn’t that Cathedral usually packed to standing room only capacity?
 
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The sequence for Easter, Pentecost, and Corpus Christi are not optional. I believe the one for Corpus Christi can be said in a shorter version, but that isn’t unheard of. (For example, on Sundays, Solemnities, and Feasts when the Te Deum is said in the Office of Readings, there is an option to omit the last quarter of it.)
What is optional is using the sequence every day during the Octave of these.( which since 1955, Corpus Christi is not an Octave, since 1969 Pentecost isn’t; though the latter remains in the EF); so technically you only have this option in the OF of using or omitting the sequence during the weekdays following Easter Sunday itself.
However as for the sequence, on the actual days of Easter Sunday, Pentecost Sunday, and Corpus Christi ( which is the Thursday after Trinity Sunday in the EF , though even some of them move it to the following Sunday which it is celebrated now in the OF), it is not an option to omit the sequence all together.
 
I went to the Philadelphia one.
Apparently this is a big deal to the rector as he was advertising the 2020 date for it in the 2019 program already.
 
The Cathedral is “packed to standing room capacity” for certain special Masses. The last one I saw packed that full was for St Katherine Drexel’s re-interment in the Cathedral a few months back.

The special TLMs there get pretty full.
The Easter Vigil also.

This Pentecost Vigil, which as you said one had to hunt through the last 2 weeks of bulletins to even find a mention, was about half full. I’m pretty sure many people did not even know it was happening. Four local charismatic groups including Wilmington were there processing with banners.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
This Pentecost Vigil, which as you said one had to hunt through the last 2 weeks of bulletins to even find a mention, was about half full. I’m pretty sure many people did not even know it was happening. Four local charismatic groups including Wilmington were there processing with banners.
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Catholic Philly (our online, archdiocesan news site) marketed it pretty much as an event for charismatics

 
Prodigal1984 said:
The sequence for Easter, Pentecost, and Corpus Christi are not optional. I believe the one for Corpus Christi can be said in a shorter version, but that isn’t unheard of. (For example, on Sundays, Solemnities, and Feasts when the Te Deum is said in the Office of Readings, there is an option to omit the last quarter of it.)
What is optional is using the sequence every day during the Octave of these.( which since 1955, Corpus Christi is not an Octave, since 1969 Pentecost isn’t; though the latter remains in the EF); so technically you only have this option in the OF of using or omitting the sequence during the weekdays following Easter Sunday itself.
However as for the sequence, on the actual days of Easter Sunday, Pentecost Sunday, and Corpus Christi ( which is the Thursday after Trinity Sunday in the EF , though even some of them move it to the following Sunday which it is celebrated now in the OF), it is not an option to omit the sequence all together.
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hmmm

I just read two articles regarding the sequences after reading your post.

The first article says:
The liturgical reforms of Vatican II further reduced the number of sequences in the missal. Presently, in the Ordinary Form, sequences are only appointed for two feasts (Easter and Pentecost) and recommended for one (Corpus Christi).
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Perhaps it’s just the Corpus Christi sequence that I often see skipped when I’m following along with the missal.

www.ccwatershed.org

A Mini History of the Sequences

At the height of their usage, there were proper sequences for nearly every Sunday and feast day.
www.ccwatershed.org www.ccwatershed.org

Here is the second, from the USCCB as FYI

 
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I’m not sure.
Every church I’ve ever been too says the sequence on Corpus Christi. However it is usually the shorter version.
The complete version is pretty long though so I get it.
 
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Prodigal1984 said:
I’m not sure.
Every church I’ve ever been too says the sequence on Corpus Christi. However it is usually the shorter version.
The complete version is pretty long though so I get it.
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Yeah, I’ve watched a priest literally skip over the sequence completely, even when it was in the OCP missal.

But then again, this is a priest who refuses to say “A reading from the Holy Gospel according to N.” and “The Gospel of the Lord.” Instead, he insists on saying “A reading from the Good News according to N.” and “The Good News of the Lord.” :roll_eyes:
 
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I would leave that church over that.
I would first say my concerns and if he gets mad or starts saying it doesn’t matter, that’s when you say " I’m not being fed and will be attending a new church." I’ve done it a few times. I actually am thinking about just going exclusively to the EF, have really been praying about it, honestly the OF just doesn’t make me feel moved in any way, and I just get angry half the time at liturgical abuses so sometimes I wonder why I’m even bothering with it.
 
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Prodigal1984 said:
That’s blasphemous and I would leave the church over that.
I would first say my concerns and if he gets mad or starts saying it doesn’t matter, that’s when you say " I’m not being fed and will be attending a new church." I’ve done it a few times. I actually am thinking about just going exclusively to the EF, have really been praying about it, honestly the OF just doesn’t make me feel moved in any way, and I just get angry half the time at liturgical abuses so sometimes I wonder why I’m even bothering with it.
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I don’t attend that parish often. Only when I need to attend their 9 PM Sunday college student Mass when I’m traveling. And he’s an Augustinian Friar, who sometimes says one of their masses, but he’s not the Pastor or a Vicar. 🤷‍♂️
 
Catholic Philly did, but the way this whole thread got started is that Zach posted the National Catholic Register article where Fr. Gill was going on about this Mass and how more people should attend it. He didn’t present it as being “for charismatics only” although Charismatics are mentioned somewhere way down in the article, so I figured it was probably going to have a heavy Charismatic influence.

What I don’t understand is why this Mass would not be shown on the Cathedral website as an event Mass or elsewhere on the web page. If they want to call it a Charismatic Event then do so. Previously they have listed other special Masses such as special TLMs, Masses with schola chanting, Anglican Ordinariate, etc. Why wouldn’t a special Pentecost Vigil Mass be listed in the Event part of the website? Do charismatics get attacked or something if they publicize their Mass?

I’ve seen this before around this part of PA (in the neighboring dioceses too). It’s like anything charismatic has its own special little communications network.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Catholic Philly did, but the way this whole thread got started is that Zach posted the National Catholic Register article where Fr. Gill was going on about this Mass and how more people should attend it. He didn’t present it as being “for charismatics only” although Charismatics are mentioned somewhere way down in the article, so I figured it was probably going to have a heavy Charismatic influence.

What I don’t understand is why this Mass would not be shown on the Cathedral website as an event Mass or elsewhere on the web page. If they want to call it a Charismatic Event then do so. Previously they have listed other special Masses such as special TLMs, Masses with schola chanting, Anglican Ordinariate, etc. Why wouldn’t a special Pentecost Vigil Mass be listed in the Event part of the website? Do charismatics get attacked or something if they publicize their Mass?

I’ve seen this before around this part of PA (in the neighboring dioceses too). It’s like anything charismatic has its own special little communications network.
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Yeah I don’t know, Father Gill is pretty conservative (at least liturgically).

So I know he’s generally promoting the use of the extended form, mainly so that more priests will use it - which I think was his goal for the interview.

In regards to why they didn’t film and broadcast the mass, I can only assume it’s because they didn’t have somebody to produce it. When they have archdiocesan or Latin Masses broadcasted, there is usually a staff person or volunteer who is producing the broadcast.

However, I know exactly what you mean regarding charismatic communities. They seem to always want to stay within themselves.

Because of the number of charismatic groups attending that mass at the Cathedral, I can see why father Gill did not actively promote it as much as he would another mass. The last thing I’m sure he would want is to run out of room when groups from Delaware or New Jersey were coming to visit.

But this is just a guess

God Bless
 
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