Permitted business and commerce on Sundays?

[HomeschoolDad]

I would like to get various answers and perspectives on the following proposition:

The nature of contemporary American society, and the largely retail- and service-based economy, is such that only strenuous, prolonged physical servile work, done by oneself, for pay, for someone else, without sufficient reason, is prohibited by the Third Commandment. Anything else — retail shopping regardless of amount of money spent, closing on business deals, operating restaurants, making entertainment accessible, online shopping that will force someone else to work on Sunday, even non-physical, non-arduous clerical work such as bookkeeping and accounting — is permissible on Sundays, with no limits, because it is not “servile work”.

I do not propose this, and I do not agree with this, but just distilling down various arguments I’ve heard, this seems to be the way Catholics in general approach the Lord’s Day.

Evidently the Cathy family who own Chick-fil-a, the Hobby Lobby people, and those numerous small business owners in the Bible Belt who close up shop on Sundays, didn’t get the memo.

 

[Vico]

Latin Canon Law (CIC)

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.123 Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.

The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.124

 

[Pattylt]

I’m old enough to remember when almost all retail closed on Sundays. Now, about the only sector that does this is auto sales? Even large retail stores were closed. Now, I think most businesses can’t fathom giving up a days profit just for religious reasons (except for very few). Competition is just too cutthroat!

Sunday’s in my youth we’re so much quieter. It was like the Saturday’s in the Jewish neighborhoods. Our capitalism has come with a price.

 

[goout]

I would like to get various answers and perspectives on the following proposition:

The nature of contemporary American society, and the largely retail- and service-based economy, is such that only strenuous, prolonged physical servile work, done by oneself, for pay, for someone else, without sufficient reason, is prohibited by the Third Commandment. Anything else — retail shopping regardless of amount of money spent, closing on business deals, operating restaurants, making entertainment accessible, online shopping that will force someone else to work on Sunday, even non-physical, non-arduous clerical work such as bookkeeping and accounting — is permissible on Sundays, with no limits, because it is not “servile work”.

I do not propose this, and I do not agree with this, but just distilling down various arguments I’ve heard, this seems to be the way Catholics in general approach the Lord’s Day.

Evidently the Cathy family who own Chick-fil-a, the Hobby Lobby people, and those numerous small business owners in the Bible Belt who close up shop on Sundays, didn’t get the memo.

Which memo are referring to? It’s not clear what you are asking/.

 

[27lw]

Probably just another area that the Church won’t emphasize, in fear that the faithful will complain.

 

[Pattylt]

Do you think it’s practical in this day and economy? Most people work for someone else and have no control over their scheduled days if it’s operating on Sundays. Those that own their businesses may be able to accommodate a Sunday off if their shareholders don’t start screaming. For retail, it is much more convenient to shop on the weekends and closing for 50% of that weekend is a profit loss many just can’t afford. I’m amazed at how many places have gone to 24 hours! When you’re in a low margin business, that’s just a loss many can’t bare!

I wouldn’t mind a bit if businesses closed on Sunday but I’m retired and every day looks the same to me. But for many M-F workers, stores closed on Sunday is hard!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It sure is
Slaves often were used to do financial things like financial work and the book keeping of the house
[/quote]

As a retiree from the financial industry, I can tell you that such work is soul-deadening and joy-depriving in a way that no amount of hod-carrying, ditch-digging, or rock-breaking could ever be. (But then again, I worked for crackheads who didn’t have the words “too much” in their vocabulary.)

I’m old enough to remember when almost all retail closed on Sundays. Now, about the only sector that does this is auto sales? Even large retail stores were closed. Now, I think most businesses can’t fathom giving up a days profit just for religious reasons (except for very few). Competition is just too cutthroat!

You feel my pain exactly.

HomeschoolDad:

Evidently the Cathy family who own Chick-fil-a, the Hobby Lobby people, and those numerous small business owners in the Bible Belt who close up shop on Sundays, didn’t get the memo.

Which memo are referring to? It’s not clear what you are asking/.

The memo that more or less says what I summarized in my OP.

They go back to a much older source.

 

[ThomasMT]

If you dont consider working fast-food as servile work, I congratulate you on achieving the luxury of being so far removed. I personally find shoveling gravel all day to be far more relaxing.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Do you think it’s practical in this day and economy? Most people work for someone else and have no control over their scheduled days if it’s operating on Sundays. Those that own their businesses may be able to accommodate a Sunday off if their shareholders don’t start screaming. For retail, it is much more convenient to shop on the weekends and closing for 50% of that weekend is a profit loss many just can’t afford. I’m amazed at how many places have gone to 24 hours! When you’re in a low margin business, that’s just a loss many can’t bare!

Matthew 16:26 (Douay) - For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

The Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby folks don’t seem to worry about potential business they are losing by not being open on Sundays. Don’t know about HL, but CFA seems to be doing very well. They are the “OG” fried chicken sandwich, I’ve tried the others — Popeyes, McDonald’s, a local chain that comes close but no cigar — and nobody else gets it quite right. And they’re not exactly cheap.

Full disclosure: I am in a family situation (disabled family members needing constant care, and homeschooling and raising son by myself) where I do not always have the luxury of eschewing labor or commerce on Sundays, nor of spending much time parsing what is “necessary” and what is “unnecessary”. Nonetheless, I do not do what I do not have to do. I had several very heavy boxes on a dolly in the foyer, to take to the garage, and I did not touch them on Sunday. I moved them downstairs this morning.

Probably just another area that the Church won’t emphasize, in fear that the faithful will complain.

. . . .

 

[Pattylt]

And they’re not exactly cheap.

Which makes up for the lack of Sunday sales. Both of these examples are privately owned by very wealthy families. They seem to have the luxury of closing on Sunday. Honestly, if sales were much lower on Sunday, many establishment would probably close that day…but, they aren’t. Most people (including many Catholics I expect) shop on Sunday and see no need to refrain from it.

It’s kind of a chicken or the egg. If people didn’t shop on Sunday, stores would close on Sunday. If stores were closed on Sunday, people would adapt and shop on Saturday. For businesses, which should happen first? For churches, which should happen first?

 

[whatistrue]

I’m old enough to remember when almost all retail closed on Sundays.

As am I. I also remember that most grocery stores closed around 5 or 6 in the evening and all day on Sunday. Both situations might have had something to do with the fact that a higher percentage (by no means all, but a higher percentage) of households had one member (most often the wife/mother) at home and available to do the regular shopping at some time during the day while children were at school and the “breadwinner” was out winning bread. Again, by no means a universal situation, but much more common then than now.

 

[Pattylt]

I remember that, too! Our grocery stores are now open from 6am to midnight including Sundays. Definitely not the case in the late 50’s early 60’s. I don’t even remember when it started changing!

 

[27lw]

Yes, I agree, it would require a big change in some business owner’s mindset, but some businesses manage to pull it off. As someone upthread mentioned, Hobby Lobby, Chick Fil-A.
I think customers love and support businesses who dare to stand up for their values.
I work at a large urban public library. We used to close on Sundays in the summer. Then, someone on the board decided we should be open Sundays all year round. That certain someone on the board is a prominent Catholic lawyer in town, a Notre Dame graduate in fact. Hah!
People can influence businesses, other organizations if they have values and a backbone.

 

[acanonlawyer]

I would like to get various answers and perspectives on the following proposition:

I agree with your disagreement with it.

Dan

 

[Pitcairn17]

I go back to the 1950’s, and even then it was never considered a moral problem to take one’s family out for Sunday dinner, or to stop for ice cream during a family outing. So from that one can seemingly infer that activities associated with running a restaurant or an ice cream stand were understood to be an acceptable Sunday occupation. Chick-fil-a is free to do what it wants, but having restaurants open on Sunday would not seem to be a moral evil.

As far as internet shopping on Sunday, outside of Amazon and WalMart, I suspect that most small to medium businesses with shopping websites use technology that queues up orders in the system for downloading on Monday - not that there are people actually working behind the scenes of every website. Such business couldn’t afford such 24x7 salaries.

For that matter, posting on CAF on Sundays isn’t a necessity, so I suppose - if the issue is the degree to which internet activity forces one to work - one could ask why the website isn’t taken down on Sundays.

 

[Irishmom2]

For that matter, posting on CAF on Sundays isn’t a necessity, so I suppose - if the issue is the degree to which internet activity forces one to work - one could ask why the website isn’t taken down on Sundays.

Sitting around typing out responses on our devices is hardly work.

 

[LilyM]

I’m old enough to remember when almost all retail closed on Sundays. Now, about the only sector that does this is auto sales? Even large retail stores were closed. Now, I think most businesses can’t fathom giving up a days profit just for religious reasons (except for very few). Competition is just too cutthroat!

Sunday’s in my youth we’re so much quieter. It was like the Saturday’s in the Jewish neighborhoods. Our capitalism has come with a price.

Not just that, but workers who rely on casual work to survive and have perhaps two or more jobs, may find it more diifficult to juggle them.if they are not able to work on Sundays. So it has perceived benefits for. owners, workers and customers.

 

[Irishmom2]

I think a thing that no one will mention is that not every business owner is Catholic or even Christian. They are free to run their business whenever they want, and people are free to stay home and not shop there.

 

[whatistrue]

I go back to the 1950’s, and even then it was never considered a moral problem to take one’s family out for Sunday dinner, or to stop for ice cream during a family outing.

Not quite as early, but our family routinely stopped on the way home from church on Sunday to pick up a bucket or barrel of fried chicken for the post-church meal. And my parents were quite conservative about “keeping the Lord’s Day”.

Sitting around typing out responses on our devices is hardly work.

Physically, no. But sometimes I have to put in a good bit of skull sweat to figure out how to word something to get the point across without being suspended.

 

[Irishmom2]

So you consider thinking to be actual work?