Perpetual Virginity of Mary, Isaiah 7:14, and words such as Almah, Parthenos, Betulah and Naarah

[Cathoholic]

**Perpetual Virginity of Mary, Isaiah 7:14, and words such as Almah, Parthenos, Betulah and Naarah. **

I am looking for any insights as to the “almah” issue in Isaiah 7:14.

With the Blessed Virgin Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, the Holy Catholic Church teaches about three aspects.

• Mary a virgin before giving birth to Jesus
• Mary a virgin even in the act of giving birth to Jesus
• Mary remains a virgin for all eternity.

Isaiah 7:14, points to numbers 1 and 2 above.

The issue I’d like to discuss on this thread:
Consider the Hebrew word “almah” (alma) and its usage in Isaiah 7:14.

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, an **almah **shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Some people argue “almah” (alma) means “virgin” **exclusively **others say “young woman” exclusively, and yet others affirm **BOTH **meanings of “almah”.

Both “virgin” and “young woman” proponents have made good points that I have heard and I think both points have merit and accept them both as applied to Isaiah 7:14 simultaneously.

If this is true, this would prophetically point to the Blessed Virgin Mary as both a “virgin” and a “young woman” so I see no exclusion of our Blessed Mother from this verse.

I am actually quite amazed at how often this issue arises directly or indirectly and how much info. there is on this topic. I am looking for any insights as to the “almah” issue in Isaiah 7:14.

I see Isaiah 7:14 as being very Catholic, and asserting the Blessed Virgin Mary as a young woman who was virginal before and during Jesus’ birth.

Yes Mary was a virgin afterwards too and I affirm that also, but unless there is something I have not seen, you’d have to go elsewhere to get that information. Therefore if anyone wants to discuss the point of Mary’s Virginity after Jesus the Christ’s birth, I’d be happy to begin a different thread on that issue too—but here I want to focus on the “almah” item of Isaiah 7:14.

Of course I also see Jesus in Isaiah 7:14 too as does the Church (CCC 497). Isaiah 7:14 is “Messianic”. But some people see Isaiah 7:14 as having no reference to Mary or Jesus. Any discussion on this topic would be appreciated.

If you’ve discussed the issue before, you know invariably the words Parthenos, Betulah and Naarah all get brought up eventually so I put them in the title of the thread to help people specifically looking for info. on these points (“all the better to be seen on search engines”).

ISAIAH 7:14 (DRV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin (almah) shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

**ISAIAH 7:14 (RSV) **14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman (almah) shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el.

Your thoughts?

 

[bzkoss236]

From what I understand, if it does mean young woman, it means a young woman who is unmarried, and would therefore be a virgin, at least in that era.

 

[Back2Church]

Yes Mary was a virgin afterwards too and I affirm that also, but unless there is something I have not seen, you’d have to go elsewhere to get that information. Therefore if anyone wants to discuss the point of Mary’s Virginity after Jesus the Christ’s birth, I’d be happy to begin a different thread on that issue too—but here I want to focus on the “almah” item of Isaiah 7:14.

Actually there was an article just last week here on Catholic.com that discussed this very issue. Don’t let the article title throw you off.

When were Joseph and Mary Married?

 

[cguerber]

There is nothing in Isaiah 7:14 that would indicate virginity during Jesus’ birth. It talks of a normal sequence of events. As an example, my mom was a virgin and conceived and had a son.

a virginH5959 shall conceive,H2029 and bearH3205 a son,H1121 and shall callH7121 his nameH8034 Immanuel.H6005

 

[AmbroseSJ]

No need to worry. The evangelist St. Matthew 1:23 quoting Isaiah 7:14 says “a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” The arguments over Almah are irrelevant. The Evangelist, and God breathed Sacred Scripture answers your question.

 

[KP3243]

Personally, the fact that Mary’s response to the Angel Gabriel is "how can this?"be instead when “when this will be?” is enough reason to pause because Luke first qualified that Mary was betrothed to Joseph if she was going to be married, children would be a natural part of their marriage in 1st century Palestine.

 

[Cathoholic]

There is nothing in Isaiah 7:14 that would indicate virginity during Jesus’ birth. It talks of a normal sequence of events. As an example, my mom was a virgin and conceived and had a son.

A virgin will conceive AND bear a son.

• A virgin conceives a son.
• A virgin bears a son.

Thanks for putting us on to the Tim Staples article Back2Church. Very relevant and informative.

 

[bzkoss236]

There is nothing in Isaiah 7:14 that would indicate virginity during Jesus’ birth. It talks of a normal sequence of events. As an example, my mom was a virgin and conceived and had a son.

a virginH5959 shall conceive,H2029 and bearH3205 a son,H1121 and shall callH7121 his nameH8034 Immanuel.H6005

But your mom wasn’t a virgin when she conceived you. This is the missing step in your natural progression. A virgin can’t conceive, only a woman who has had sex (ie. no longer a virgin) can conceive unless divine intervention was involved.

 

[cguerber]

But your mom wasn’t a virgin when she conceived you. This is the missing step in your natural progression. A virgin can’t conceive, only a woman who has had sex (ie. no longer a virgin) can conceive unless divine intervention was involved.

Yes, thank you. You are correct. Marry conceive because of the Holy Spirit so she was still a virgin. But to say she maintained it through child birth takes away from the humanity of Jesus.

 

[bzkoss236]

Yes, thank you. You are correct. Marry conceive because of the Holy Spirit so she was still a virgin. But to say she maintained it through child birth takes away from the humanity of Jesus.

No it doesn’t. Conception doesn’t take one’s virginity away. Virginity is about sex. Once someone has had sex for the first time, that is when one is no longer a virgin. So, by conceiving and giving birth to Christ Mary still maintained her virginity, because she hadn’t had sex yet. Further, Catholics believe, as is documented as a historical Christian belief, that Mary remained a virgin for her whole life.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Yes, thank you. You are correct. Marry conceive because of the Holy Spirit so she was still a virgin. But to say she maintained it through child birth takes away from the humanity of Jesus.

Do you think that when Jesus walked on the water it took away from his humanity?

 

[fisherman_carl]

This is what St. Jerome had to say about it in the 4th century.

'32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope: Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah! What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia: “And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which comes forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray you, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for your camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord has appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the… "

newadvent.org/fathers/30091.htm

 

[fisherman_carl]

From the benefit of hindsight Christians see the Virgin Mary as fulfilling Is 7:14.[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB] The term virgin does seem to fit better with what the Lord is saying in Isaiah, because the prophecy is a sign to all of Israel that is “deep as Sheol or make it high as above”. A young woman with a child is hardly a huge sign to Israel compared to the Virgin Mary pregnant with the Incarnation of God.

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look! the virgin is with child and she is about to give birth to a son, and she shall call his name ‘God with us.’ "

 

[Back2Church]

Yes, thank you. You are correct. Marry conceive because of the Holy Spirit so she was still a virgin. But to say she maintained it through child birth takes away from the humanity of Jesus.

What’s your definition of virginity? Are you implying that the act of Jesus passing through the birth canal removed Mary’s virginity?

 

[KP3243]

If Jesus had siblings they were pretty bad siblings, they didn’t even show up for his death!

 

[KP3243]

What’s your definition of virginity? Are you implying that the act of Jesus passing through the birth canal removed Mary’s virginity?

In Jewish tradition the baby boy who passes through birth is the first born, if it is a male even today they have to give the first born male back to God. My Jewish friend’s older sister had a girl, her one brother had twins so that did not count, her other brother had a daughter first but her youngest sister had a boy and they had to have a ceremony for Moses because he was a male.

 

[Cathoholic]

I have run into a lot of objections on some of the secular websites discussing Isaiah 7:14, and these objections have eventually served to highlight Catholic truth even more with the help of many good Catholic defenders that I learned many of these insights from.

The other thing is, I realized in a backhanded sort of way (at these secular websites), just how important this verse must be. Why? Because it always seems to turn into a proverbial lightening-rod on the secular websites and their debate or discussion forums.

The other thing that kind of saddened me is that you usually won’t see Protestant Christians defending the any sort of Christian view of Isaiah 7:14. They (almost) never even defend the Messianic overtones of Isaiah 7:14, much less the Marian virginal implications. I see more Eastern Orthodox defending this than Protestants on secular websites.

I am always puzzled by this. Protestants have been very helpful in other areas defending Catholic doctrine (what they see as mere “Christian doctrine”) on those secular web interactions, but they are almost AWOL on Isaiah 7:14 (there have been a few good defenders but not many). The people who call themselves “Messianic Jews” have also been helpful.

Let’s look at Isaiah 7:14 several different ways, and look at and deal with some of the objections that commonly arise concerning this verse (“Behold a virgin almah shall conceive, . . .”).

ISAIAH 7:14 (DRV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

Some people try to object and say the Hebrew word “almah” ONLY means “young woman”.

Therefore, the argument goes: “There is no ‘virginal connotations’ and there are no ‘Messianic overtones’ concerning these verses!”

They will object and say something to the effect of:

Objection:

“If Isaiah wanted to get the idea of “virgin” in the reader’s head, the Hebrew word ‘betulah’ should have been used here. ‘Betulah’ ALWAYS means ‘virgin’ and if Isaiah wanted to get a ‘virgin’ picture across, he would have used the Hebrew word ‘betulah’.

There are several problems with that line of thinking.

Someone could turn the whole argument on its head and state:

“If Isaiah wanted to get the idea of “young woman” in the reader’s head, the Hebrew word ‘na’arah’ should have been used here. ‘Na’arah’ ALWAYS means ‘young woman’ and if Isaiah wanted to get a ‘young woman’ picture across, he would have used the Hebrew word ‘na’arah’.

They would retort and say: ‘Na’arah’ CAN have virginal overtones and doesn’t ALWAYS mean merely “young woman”.

I would say: “That is correct. And likewise “almah” can have virginal overtones and doesn’t ALWAYS mean merely “young woman” too.

Almah CAN and often (not always but often) DOES have virginal overtones too.

Betulah CAN mean mere “young woman” also.

Betulah does NOT ALWAYS mean “virgin”.

Remember that (Betulah does NOT ALWAYS mean “virgin”). I can’t estimate how many times I’ve seen this false premise try to be passed off.

As Messianic Jewish Michael Brown states (Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus Volume 3, Pgs. 21-22. Baker Books 2003):

“There is no single word in biblical Hebrew that always and only means ‘virgin’”.

Ancient Jews DID see the virginal overtones with the word “almah” in Isaiah 7:14.

As we go on, we will see Heavenly angels suggest this understanding too as does the Prophet Simeon (but we will get to that later).

Yet as Fr. Echert stated:

“The Hebrew word “almah” and the Greek Septuagint word “parthenos” “have the meaning of an unmarried young woman, who was generally presumed to be a virgin unless otherwise established.”

I think we will see why Fr. Echert is correct later in the thread. We will get to the Greek “Parthenos” aspect later too.

Also contextually in Isaiah 7:14, almah MUST include the meaning “virgin” at least layered into the prophecy somehow. Why? Because Ahaz is going to get a GREAT SIGN or a sign as high as Heaven of deep as the netherworld (as deep as Sheol).

**ISAIAH 7:10-14a (RSV) ** 10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test.” 13 And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign.

For now, any further (name removed by moderator)ut on the above would be good. I have discussed this issue at length and researched it but there is always more information out there. One reason I am posting this thread is I am looking for more insights (both objections and answers to objections) concerning Isaiah 7:14, especially insights of apologetic value.

As we go on we will see these words frequently used:

• Almah (alma–Hebrew)
• Parthenos (Greek)
• Virgo (Latin)
• Betulah (Hebrew)
• Na’arah (naarah or naara–Hebrew)

 

[Cathoholic]

fisherman carl,

Thanks for the fine St. Jerome quote posted. Shows this debate has been going on for awhile.

 

[KP3243]

Don’t you think if Mary wasn’t a perpetual virgin someone in the first century would have debunked what the Church was teaching really easily? Also if the Church teaches that the men crucified next to Jesus were Saint Dismas (the good thief) and Gestas we would have recorded the names of Jesus’s siblings and venerated them as saints. There is no advantage I see of creating a story of Mary’s perpetual virginity if it wasn’t true.

 

[Cathoholic]

Don’t you think if Mary wasn’t a perpetual virgin someone in the first century would have debunked what the Church was teaching really easily?

Yes I do think it would have been immediately debunked by the Jewish Christian community if it were false. The fact that the earliest Christians did NOT challenge this truth, is as you suggest KP3243, is more evidence for the truth of this doctrine.

And yes I do believe Mary is a Perpetual Virgin.

But there are many people that do not believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.

So I want to be sure and highlight the reasons why THEY deny that on this thread, see the objections and analyze them, then illustrate here the best ways to debunk these denials of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, focusing on Isaiah 7:14 as a springboard.