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Ilroy
Guest
Another angle…maybe Christ had exactly this in mind for Peter to do…that way the rest of us humps see that if we keep focused on Christ everything goes the right way…but when we turn from Him we sink…just a thought
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
I sink alot–or should I say tread water
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BlestOne
Guest
Every instance of a miracle in the NT starts with the recipient believing in Christ. Because they believe, Christ tells them, “Because of your faith you are healed” or a similar statement. Belief is first, faith that he will do XXX is next, then the action XXX.
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storm807
Guest
BUT you can only do what He permits, and nowhere does He say it’s given to all. John 14 simply indicates that greater works are coming, not that anyone with Faith can perform them.
In short, miracles aren’t a measuring stick of Faith, but are simply gifts given here and there according to the Will of the Holy Spirit. Check out the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 12
Peace and God bless!
not given to all? hes no respector of person, its all!!!
greater works are coming??? there is no time in GOD. its a matter of when you accept.
sorry but accept that you are capable of these things and more. its your gift to you.
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storm807
Guest
AMEN!!!
LETS GET OUR FAITH ON!!
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FCEGM
Guest
As related in Matthew 14 where Simon joins Jesus in walking on the water, the Lord is manifesting His Divinity. In the OT it is GOD Who “walks upon the water.” We see also that it is God Who has power over the water, the place of chaos, the region where demonic powers dwell. This always harkens back to Genesis where God calls order - “Cosmos” – out of “chaos”. Water as chaos is the sense that we find in many of the prophets, in many of the psalms, going back to that primitive idea that this was the realm of dis-order. Now God in Genesis gives order to the water, and divides the water, bringing forth dry land, conquering watery chaos. Job, e.g., in Ch. 38 makes it a point that God puts His heel and walks upon the water, again an ancient sign of conquest – when the winner would come and place his heel on the head of the person vanquished, who humbly prostrated himself before his conquerer. Here it is the God-Man conquering watery chaos.
To add to this in these accounts (Jn. 6, e.g.) “Do not fear, it is I.” “Ego emi.” Also in His agony in the garden, “Ego emi”: “I am,” The Name of God. When Jesus walks on the water, doing what only YHWH does, He shows His creative power and His judgmental, governing, victorious power.
In Matthew’s presentation of the walking on the water we see an addition (because this is the ecclesial Gospel); Our Lord is asked by Peter in his usual blustery way: “Let me walk with you.” Peter is successfully walking on the water, but then he realizes his own frailty and takes his eyes off the Lord and begins to sink. Then Jesus takes him by the hand and keeps him from sinking in the water, and takes him to the boat, a symbol of the Church, the Apostolic boat, the barque of Peter where the Fishermen of the Church ply their trade – on which they are told by Christ, “henceforth you will be fishers of men.” But it is only Peter who walked on the water with Christ.
What has happened here? Peter is allowed to share, to participate in the prerogatives of Jesus. He is allowed to do what only God does. Peter is given certain powers of government, certain powers of judgment. There is a deep significance in this chapter, only two chapters before the great Petrine text of Matthew 16.
To add to this in these accounts (Jn. 6, e.g.) “Do not fear, it is I.” “Ego emi.” Also in His agony in the garden, “Ego emi”: “I am,” The Name of God. When Jesus walks on the water, doing what only YHWH does, He shows His creative power and His judgmental, governing, victorious power.
In Matthew’s presentation of the walking on the water we see an addition (because this is the ecclesial Gospel); Our Lord is asked by Peter in his usual blustery way: “Let me walk with you.” Peter is successfully walking on the water, but then he realizes his own frailty and takes his eyes off the Lord and begins to sink. Then Jesus takes him by the hand and keeps him from sinking in the water, and takes him to the boat, a symbol of the Church, the Apostolic boat, the barque of Peter where the Fishermen of the Church ply their trade – on which they are told by Christ, “henceforth you will be fishers of men.” But it is only Peter who walked on the water with Christ.
What has happened here? Peter is allowed to share, to participate in the prerogatives of Jesus. He is allowed to do what only God does. Peter is given certain powers of government, certain powers of judgment. There is a deep significance in this chapter, only two chapters before the great Petrine text of Matthew 16.
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Catholig
Guest
This is a common atheist argument, and while I personally don’t have all the answers there are too things I’d like to point out. 1) How does one have even the faith of a mustard seed, when he is requiring on a miracle being preformed to believe? I think a good biblical rebutal is simply Dt 6:16, which, if you don’t have your bible out (I viewed your profile and saw the N/A under religion), reads as follows: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God, as thou temptedst him in the place of temptation. 2) There are definitely limits - even if atheists say that there aren’t. For instance you can’t ask God for something immoral, nor do I think you could ask God to conform his will to yours. Instead we should aim to conform ours to his, because he knows what we need even before we ask (Mt 6:8).
Catholig
Catholig
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Ghosty
Guest
I accept precisely what Scripture says, which is that God has appointed SOME to be priests, SOME to be healers, SOME to prophets, ect.
not given to all? hes no respector of person, its all!!!
greater works are coming??? there is no time in GOD. its a matter of when you accept.
sorry but accept that you are capable of these things and more. its your gift to you.
Peace and God bless!
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Ilroy
Guest
Almost, but you missed a little part. first they believe and have faith, then they act on that faith by calling out to Him for healing, mercy, etc, or the 4 friends lower the paralyzed man through the roof, then He heals them and says because of your faith you are healed. So, even though Christ knew they had the faith, He waited until they acted on that faith before he healed them. So, we have to actually Live the faith rather than just having faith. Jesus said “Because of your faith”, not “because you have faith…”
I know, sounds nit-picky, but that seems to be a big difference betweeen “faith alone” and actually having to live your faith or act on your faith.
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NotWorthy
Guest
What about when Jesus healed the man in the Synagogue on the Sabbath, who had the withered hand?
Or the man at the Bethesda Pool in John (ch. 5?) who had been paralyzed for 38 years.
Both of those seem to be miracles to teach a lesson (or create a disturbance among the Pharisees). Jesus really knew how to get their goat, eh?
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mapleoak
Guest
Incidentally, few people realize this, but this incident is the real reason that Jesus called Peter “Rock”.
Because that’s what Peter looked like when he lost sight of Jesus.
Seriously though, Peter was the only one with enough faith to actually attempt to get out of the boat and walk on water. Certainly none of the others in the boat had that kind of faith. Therefore fitting to be the Rock which the Church is built on. :twocents:
In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak
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BlestOne
Guest
I humbly stand corrected…Thank you!!!
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Ilroy
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NotWorthy
Guest
We also see Jesus walking on the water, but it’s got nothing to do with the disciples faith? It seems that John handles miracles differently then the Synoptic Authors, which fit the mold presented by Blest One and clarified quite appropriately by another poster.
But while driving around today, I recalled why John uses the miracles in a different way. He explains it in John chapter 2 and 4. After the water to wine miracle in Cana, John says, *Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.
*
And then with the official at Capernaum in chapter 4:
The father realized that just at that time Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live,” and he and his whole household came to believe.
In John, the miracles are called “signs” and they are “so that you may come to believe” that Jesus Christ is Lord.
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