Philosophical Questions about Love as it Pertains to Sexual Orientation

[ClemtheCatholic]

Hi guys!

I’m trying to better understand the nature of love, particularly as it relates to matters of sexuality. Here are a couple of questions I have to start with:

What is eros?

Is it possible for eros to exist between two persons of the same sex (even though they don’t have agape)?

I’ve been doing some reading of Pope Benedict and Alice von Hildebrand on these questions, but I am a little confused as they seem to say that, when they reach their ultimate form, agape and eros are basically intertwined. In section 8 of Deus caritas est, for example, Pope Benedict writes:

We have thus come to an initial, albeit still somewhat generic response to the two questions raised earlier. Fundamentally, “love” is a single reality, but with different dimensions; at different times, one or other dimension may emerge more clearly. Yet when the two dimensions are totally cut off from one another, the result is a caricature or at least an impoverished form of love.

I’m struggling to understand this. I can see why eros needs agape, but why does agape need eros? In what sense are neighbours supposed to show eros towards one another?

Thanks in advance for any insights you can offer, and I look forward to having a robust discussion on these questions.

 

[phil19034]

For starters, I would recommend reading the following article from Alice von Hildebrand (if you haven’t read it already), which was originally published in the May 2005 edition of the “Homiletic & Pastoral Review”

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6565

I also recommend buying C.S. Lewis’ book The Four Loves

Now, I’m going to attempt to answer your questions:

What is eros? *Eros is the natural love between spouses, love for one’s children, love for one’s parents, love between siblings, love between friends.
*

*Is it possible for eros to exist between two persons of the same sex (even though they don’t have agape)? *** Yes, it is possible for two persons of the same sex to have eros love. Two friends can share eros love with each other. But in my opinion, it becomes easier to avoid disordered eros with agape love intertwined.

I can see why eros needs agape, but why does agape need eros? No, agape does not need eros. If you have agape for someone, you do not need eros. For example: St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare did not need eros love, agape love was enough. And frankly eros love between them would have been scandalous.

When agape love is added to eros love, it helps to insure the love does not become selfish, but rather selfless. In order for our love to selfless, we need agape.

I pray this helps.

 

[Peter_J]

 

[ClemtheCatholic]

For starters, I would recommend reading the following article from Alice von Hildebrand (if you haven’t read it already), which was originally published in the May 2005 edition of the “Homiletic & Pastoral Review”

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6565

I also recommend buying C.S. Lewis’ book The Four Loves

Now, I’m going to attempt to answer your questions:

What is eros? *Eros is the natural love between spouses, love for one’s children, love for one’s parents, love between siblings, love between friends.
*

*Is it possible for eros to exist between two persons of the same sex (even though they don’t have agape)? *** Yes, it is possible for two persons of the same sex to have eros love. Two friends can share eros love with each other. But in my opinion, it becomes easier to avoid disordered eros with agape love intertwined.

I can see why eros needs agape, but why does agape need eros? No, agape does not need eros. If you have agape for someone, you do not need eros. For example: St. Francis of Assisi and St. Clare did not need eros love, agape love was enough. And frankly eros love between them would have been scandalous.

When agape love is added to eros love, it helps to insure the love does not become selfish, but rather selfless. In order for our love to selfless, we need agape.

I pray this helps.

Thank you for your reply! But I thought eros is purely spousal, rather than familial?

 

[phil19034]

Thank you for your reply! But I thought eros is purely spousal, rather than familial?

Sorry… I was thinking of natural love (with is a combination of Storge, Philia & Eros), not strictly eros. My bad. I was also thinking of when Jesus asks Peter if he loves him (which was a discussion of philia vs agape).

However, the loves do build on another. If an eros love between two people also contains philia and agape, then it’s theoretically possible to have eros love without sexual contact. Simply think of elderly couples who no longer have sex, but still are deeply in love. Or high school sweethearts who don’t marry until after college, and remain chaste before and after marriage.

Eros love, in itself is neutral, but it depends on what people do with it. Do they remain chaste or do they give into unchaste desires?

So either way, it is possible for two people of the same sex to have Eros love and still remain chaste. It’s difficult and there will be a lot of temptation, but it possible.

However, I guess, it most likely be best for a homosexual to focus on having Philia and Agape love.

If you haven’t read C.S. Lewis, I suggest it. I think I’m going to start reading it cover to cover myself

God Bless