Philosophies in Public Education

[SonSearcher]

The problem that I see with the communities of home-schools is that most homeschoolers do so for similar reasons and therefore, are going to have similar beliefs/thoughts etc, how does one in that environment learn to deal with a diverse and ever more global world?

Say you walk into an Amish community as a diverse individual…what happens? Do they stone you? Send you packing? Yell at you? Question your beliefs? Call you a weirdo idiot?From what I understand you could bet that they would do none of these things.

But put that Amish individual… clothes and all into an average run of the mill public school. I would say chances are everything other than physical pain would be inflicted. They would have a good chance at being berated, made fun of, intimidated, threatened, laughed at, all sorts of emotional and verbal abuse, for being different. And not just by the immature students either, teacher join in too. I know several.

What do Amish folks have to do with homeschooling? Well most Amish communities have existed for a couple of centuries without modernized public schooling and they are no less tolerant of diversity than anyone else…one could even argue they are more tolerant even. Just remember the deadly shooting at the Amish school house and the epic forgiveness shown by the community a few years back.

Diverse does not necessarily mean tolerant, diverse doesn’t necessarily mean accepting …even though that is what is sold.

But before we take this thread off of it’s tracks I would suggest we could continue this on a new thread. Public vs. Home-school or something like that.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Say you walk into an Amish community as a diverse individual…what happens? Do they stone you? Send you packing? Yell at you? Question your beliefs? Call you a weirdo idiot?From what I understand you could bet that they would do none of these things.

But put that Amish individual… clothes and all into an average run of the mill public school. I would say chances are everything other than physical pain would be inflicted. They would have a good chance at being berated, made fun of, intimidated, threatened, laughed at, all sorts of emotional and verbal abuse, for being different. And not just by the immature students either, teacher join in too. I know several.

What do Amish folks have to do with homeschooling? Well most Amish communities have existed for a couple of centuries without modernized public schooling and they are no less tolerant of diversity than anyone else…one could even argue they are more tolerant even. Just remember the deadly shooting at the Amish school house and the epic forgiveness shown by the community a few years back.

Diverse does not necessarily mean tolerant, diverse doesn’t necessarily mean accepting …even though that is what is sold.

But before we take this thread off of it’s tracks I would suggest we could continue this on a new thread. Public vs. Home-school or something like that.

No diverse does not mean tolerant or understanding. And I am not advocating diversity for the sake of diversity. I am saying that diversity is needed because unlike the Amish most of our children are going to have to go out into a diverse world and are going to have to learn how to deal with people that are not tolerant while not giving in to society.

 

[SonSearcher]

No diverse does not mean tolerant or understanding. And I am not advocating diversity for the sake of diversity. I am saying that diversity is needed because unlike the Amish most of our children are going to have to go out into a diverse world and are going to have to learn how to deal with people that are not tolerant while not giving in to society.

But I think you are indeed advocating diversity for diversity’s sake. You are saying we should put kids in public school to subject them to an intolerant microcosm of the intolerant world to make sure they have the tools to combat it. But what I am saying is that Amish people exist in a world completely separate from the “public” but yet they are amazingly tolerant of the rest of the world. So we can’t say that public schools have cornered the market on diversity and tolerance.

But again lets get another thread going if you want to continue.

 

[Pugsly]

How 'bout…“Leftism”

Leftism is a fear based philosophy: it sees a world that is “red in tooth and claw”…and strives for safety via 3 converging paths.
Path #1–fear-based…Survival ethics…the world is a dangerous place…I must do whatever it takes to survive, there is no morality higher than my survival. Thus, Lefties think it OK to dictate everything they think is SAFE…from how big a soda you can drink to rubberized play grounds…etc. Health and Saftey concerns explode when Leftism takes over.
Path #2-- the fear of the Strong. The Strong will manipulate the Weak unless the Weak band together and control them. Thus, we see a fear of the “big” business, the “big” banks, those with “big” money…etc. Heck, these people fear WALMART.
Path #3–Nature ethics…everything evolved randomly and without meaning…therefore all of nature is of equal worth.
All 3 of these paths converge into a modern day push for a wacky environmentalist big government protector of the Weak.
Now, a Christian should not live in fear at all. Christian hold human dignity and freedom as high priorities, not because we fear the “strong”…but because we honor the everlasting value of the human soul.
We pushed for safety nets against manipulations of the strong in business and society…but NOT out of fear. But because it was the right and moral thing to do…we were the force behind unions and human rights…and labor laws and suffergettes and civil rights movements.
Without God’s Law you merely have a fear-filled governmental reaction to society…which leads to a loss of freedom at each "crisis. The Left today will actually make up a crisis to gain more power over others…eg…overpopulation, gun control, global warming, the health care crisis in the US, the “obesity” crisis…etc

 

[Pugsly]

I am looking for a few suggestions on philosophies taught in our public education system that contradict a belief in God (or obedience to God). I understand each teacher (or professor) brings his own views to the table, but I am interested in identifying some of these philosophies that seem inherent to modern education. I will give a few examples.

Naturalism: Nothing exists outside the natural. While by definition science doesn’t attempt to explain the supernatural, our education system is heavily focused on only that which we can perceive with our senses. Schools and teachers may not outright teach Naturalism, but the ideology behind Naturalism is pressed upon young minds while religion is pushed out the door.

Relativism: Concepts such as beauty and ugliness are subjective to the individual. Gay marriage is a relative issue currently receiving a great deal of attention. We could take a step back and say the right and wrong of sexuality in general is relative. What is wrong to one student isn’t necessarily wrong to another.

Freudianism: Virtues such as courage, love, hope, etc., are nothing more than connections in the brain resulting from mental conditioning. I believe C. S. Lewis referred to this as, “Men Without Chests.”

I realize the way these philosophies are surreptitiously introduced to students varies from school to school, and state to state. I am merely curious to learn about other ways the values and beliefs of Christianity are being undermined in education. I am most interested in public education K-12, but university examples are also welcome.

Another way to word it: What philosophies are drawing students away from God and muddling their ability to distinguish right from wrong, and why is there a lack of remorse for those wrong choices?

If you want to understand how the school system went far to the left…study John Dewey’s life…and also how the Social Gospel went from helping the (anawim) the poor, the widow, the orphan and the stranger in your land during the industrial revolution…to…becoming a hiding place for leftist-liberalism-progressives whatever term you prefer.

 

[Cojuanco]

The complaint that I have is that in order to adhere to the secularist idea, virtue and morality have also been thrown out. As a Christian I believe virtue and morality to be universally tied to our Creator, though many of the great philosophers looked to virtue (even without a belief in God or gods) as being imperative to a successful and thriving society. Philosophies behind post-modernism suggest virtue and morality to be subjective and not universal, which I believe leads to pseudo-virtues that allow people justify their actions.

Nothing stops us from educating public school kids out of school hours on morality. The problem is that many of the parents may not agree with us Catholics, and may object to using government money and government personnel to teach their children doctrine they do not agree with. Hence the need, in the United States at least, for neutrality in the public schools (I know it is different in Europe, but they do not have the strict provisions the First Amendment does concerning religion, except perhaps France).

 

[Pugsly]

Nothing stops us from educating public school kids out of school hours on morality…

Kids today are growing up in a culture that is antithetical to Christianity…that is overarched by a worldly philosophy…For example…my 5th grade son took a reading comprehension test the other day. One of the short reading subjects on the test was about how the Earth is poisoned by human garbage over the last few hundred years…then it pointed out that the United States has been around a few hundred years.
Liberalism-leftism-progressivism-secularism-post-modernity…whatever you wish to call it…it is the worldly philosophy that Paul warned us about…“that has a form of godliness (empathy toward the weak)…but denies the power thereof.” It denies that Jesus is Lord and the only way to the Father.

You can spend 3 hours a night trying to undo what a child is getting from class, TV, movies, news…culture…etc…but it is quite difficult to raise an untainted child today.

Leftism has taken over the culture in America so thoroughly that it no longer has to hide behind psuedo-christianity anymore…It is out and brazen and arrogant today. We just had a college professor on MSNBC say how we need to “get over this idea that our children belong to us”…that when we can progress to the idea “that children belong to the collective” then Education will get the kind of funding it needs.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Nothing stops us from educating public school kids out of school hours on morality. The problem is that many of the parents may not agree with us Catholics, and may object to using government money and government personnel to teach their children doctrine they do not agree with. Hence the need, in the United States at least, for neutrality in the public schools (I know it is different in Europe, but they do not have the strict provisions the First Amendment does concerning religion, except perhaps France).

This.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Kids today are growing up in a culture that is antithetical to Christianity…that is overarched by a worldly philosophy…For example…my 5th grade son took a reading comprehension test the other day. One of the short reading subjects on the test was about how the Earth is poisoned by human garbage over the last few hundred years…then it pointed out that the United States has been around a few hundred years.
Liberalism-leftism-progressivism-secularism-post-modernity…whatever you wish to call it…it is the worldly philosophy that Paul warned us about…“that has a form of godliness (empathy toward the weak)…but denies the power thereof.” It denies that Jesus is Lord and the only way to the Father.

You can spend 3 hours a night trying to undo what a child is getting from class, TV, movies, news…culture…etc…but it is quite difficult to raise an untainted child today.

Leftism has taken over the culture in America so thoroughly that it no longer has to hide behind psuedo-christianity anymore…It is out and brazen and arrogant today. We just had a college professor on MSNBC say how we need to “get over this idea that our children belong to us”…that when we can progress to the idea “that children belong to the collective” then Education will get the kind of funding it needs.

A couple of points here. First regarding the reading exercise, there is a pollution problem in the world. God gave us authority over the animals and plants of the Earth and part of that is taking care of them. Now, the environmentalists tend to take this way to far, but just an out of context quote saying that there is a pollution problem, does not seem to me to go against Christian values.

As to trying to undo what they see on TV, etc, if there are shows being watched by your children that go against your values, why are they watching them? Where are you when these things are being watched that you then have to “undo” what was “learned”?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I am looking for a few suggestions on philosophies taught in our public education system that contradict a belief in God (or obedience to God). I understand each teacher (or professor) brings his own views to the table, but I am interested in identifying some of these philosophies that seem inherent to modern education. I will give a few examples.

Naturalism: Nothing exists outside the natural. While by definition science doesn’t attempt to explain the supernatural, our education system is heavily focused on only that which we can perceive with our senses. Schools and teachers may not outright teach Naturalism, but the ideology behind Naturalism is pressed upon young minds while religion is pushed out the door.

Relativism: Concepts such as beauty and ugliness are subjective to the individual. Gay marriage is a relative issue currently receiving a great deal of attention. We could take a step back and say the right and wrong of sexuality in general is relative. What is wrong to one student isn’t necessarily wrong to another.

Freudianism: Virtues such as courage, love, hope, etc., are nothing more than connections in the brain resulting from mental conditioning. I believe C. S. Lewis referred to this as, “Men Without Chests.”

I realize the way these philosophies are surreptitiously introduced to students varies from school to school, and state to state. I am merely curious to learn about other ways the values and beliefs of Christianity are being undermined in education. I am most interested in public education K-12, but university examples are also welcome.

Another way to word it: What philosophies are drawing students away from God and muddling their ability to distinguish right from wrong, and why is there a lack of remorse for those wrong choices?

This closed thread on page two of this forum may help. " Protecting your H.S., College children from scientific gibberish "

Linus2nd

 

[Steve80]

Nothing stops us from educating public school kids out of school hours on morality. The problem is that many of the parents may not agree with us Catholics, and may object to using government money and government personnel to teach their children doctrine they do not agree with. Hence the need, in the United States at least, for neutrality in the public schools (I know it is different in Europe, but they do not have the strict provisions the First Amendment does concerning religion, except perhaps France).

What interests me is identifying why there is a lack of universal virtue, which has been replaced with subjective morality. I understand that not everyone agrees (hence subjective morality), but I would like to know how the public education system surreptitiously presses this ideology on students, which ultimately leads to pseudo-virtues. Specifically, what movements and philosophies lead to these pseudo-virtues. Let me give an example of Courage:

Not long ago, a young law students stood before Congress to advocate coverage for contraceptives and women’s health rights (such as abortion). There were some vocal voices who ridiculed her and went as far as to call her a whore and other demeaning names. Many in the media rushed to her defense and talked about how “courageous” she was for standing up to her accusers. I don’t agree with the name-calling, but what many educated broadcasters failed to see in their argument, is that they used the virtue “courage” to describe someone taking a stance against the virtue of “chastity.” Or in other words, promoting the vice of sensuality (not to mention the destruction of innocent life).

Some 2,000 years ago, a Man was in the temple and a mob chased an adulterous woman there to be stoned. They told the Man what she had been accused of and said it was lawful to stone her. When they asked Him what they should do, he replied, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Now that’s courage!

I understand that there are many who don’t want Catholic beliefs taught in school, and I also understand that virtue and morality can be taught outside of school, by parents, mentors, etc. But what I am specifically interested in is what philosophies kids pick up in public schools that influence them into believing virtues should be subjective. Here is a quote (I can’t recall the author) explaining virtue in the negative light of unselfishness:

“Rather than actually love our neighbor, we unselfishly allow him to live whatever way he wants to, even if his life choices are self-destructive.”

 

[Pugsly]

A couple of points here. First regarding the reading exercise, there is a pollution problem in the world. God gave us authority over the animals and plants of the Earth and part of that is taking care of them. Now, the environmentalists tend to take this way to far, but just an out of context quote saying that there is a pollution problem, does not seem to me to go against Christian values.

As to trying to undo what they see on TV, etc, if there are shows being watched by your children that go against your values, why are they watching them? Where are you when these things are being watched that you then have to “undo” what was “learned”?

CatholicGeek1…that was a perfect example…When public schools indoctrinate your child with Leftist values…ie…that the world is divided between the good/Empathetic…vs…the evil/Manipulators. [And the USA is the biggest manipulator of them all!]…It can be quite subtle…such as the reading exercise which you failed to recognize how a story about poison garbage has NOTHING to do with how long America has been around.
But it implants in the child’s mind the idea that there is a relationship between the evil of poisoning the environment and the USA

Leftism is a religious doctrine that teaches ALL of nature should be harmoniously equal…yet the world is divided between the Strong and the Weak…between those who manipulate the world (aided by those with hierarchical delusions about god)…and those who are Empathetic and rational.

 

[SonSearcher]

CatholicGeek1…that was a perfect example…When public schools indoctrinate your child with Leftist values…ie…that the world is divided between the good/Empathetic…vs…the evil/Manipulators. [And the USA is the biggest manipulator of them all!]…It can be quite subtle…such as the reading exercise which you failed to recognize how a story about poison garbage has NOTHING to do with how long America has been around.
But it implants in the child’s mind the idea that there is a relationship between the evil of poisoning the environment and the USA

Leftism is a religious doctrine that teaches ALL of nature should be harmoniously equal…yet the world is divided between the Strong and the Weak…between those who manipulate the world (aided by those with hierarchical delusions about god)…and those who are Empathetic and rational.

 

[InJesusItrust]

I am looking for a few suggestions on philosophies taught in our public education system that contradict a belief in God (or obedience to God). I understand each teacher (or professor) brings his own views to the table, but I am interested in identifying some of these philosophies that seem inherent to modern education. I will give a few examples.

Naturalism: Nothing exists outside the natural. While by definition science doesn’t attempt to explain the supernatural, our education system is heavily focused on only that which we can perceive with our senses. Schools and teachers may not outright teach Naturalism, but the ideology behind Naturalism is pressed upon young minds while religion is pushed out the door.

Relativism: Concepts such as beauty and ugliness are subjective to the individual. Gay marriage is a relative issue currently receiving a great deal of attention. We could take a step back and say the right and wrong of sexuality in general is relative. What is wrong to one student isn’t necessarily wrong to another.

Freudianism: Virtues such as courage, love, hope, etc., are nothing more than connections in the brain resulting from mental conditioning. I believe C. S. Lewis referred to this as, “Men Without Chests.”

I realize the way these philosophies are surreptitiously introduced to students varies from school to school, and state to state. I am merely curious to learn about other ways the values and beliefs of Christianity are being undermined in education. I am most interested in public education K-12, but university examples are also welcome.

Another way to word it: What philosophies are drawing students away from God and muddling their ability to distinguish right from wrong, and why is there a lack of remorse for those wrong choices?

Sentimentalism–that feelings are a path to truth. So many people disbelieve truth because ideas are horrific, such as the ideas that hell exists and many go there; or that Marxism leads to more suffering despite good intentions and sentimental ideas.