Philosophy; Comte's positivism

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Marxism rejects positivism and views it as subjective idealism, because it limits itself only to facts and does not examine the underlying cause of things

Auguste Comte says society undergoes 3 different phases in it’s quest for the truth. These phases are theological, metaphysical and the positive phases .

What do you think Happens during the positive?

Dessert
 
dessert said:
Marxism rejects positivism and views it as subjective idealism, because it limits itself only to facts and does not examine the underlying cause of things

Auguste Comte says society undergoes 3 different phases in it’s quest for the truth. These phases are theological, metaphysical and the positive phases .

What do you think Happens during the positive?

Dessert
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What happens is that the vast majority of people aren’t very good at science, and can’t cope. Consider vitamin pills. Superficially this looks like science. Vitamins are various trace compounds that our bodies can’t synthesise and are needed for different functions in the body. So they have a biochemical meaning, and by definition a deficiency is deleterious. However the public treats them as health-giving potions. “Vitamins are good for you” is widely-held belief, and it isn’t true. A deficiency is bad for you, and whilst there might be an optimal level that is higher than the normal intake level, this is extremely controversial, and the benefits are marginal at best. A “vitamin-packed lunch” will be good for you if you suffer from mutliple vitamin deficiencies, for the average Westerner it will make no difference.

The pattern is repeated time after time. What is given a scientific gloss is, in fact, magical thinking. Not for everyone, but for the vast majority.
 
It is interesting that you mentioned vitamins, because an elderly man at th parish I went to has been for several years taking about 15 different vitamin a day. He has a friend that does this and claims this is his good health. But he is decieved because he is not in good health as we obbserve so some have told him to quit them and they had a friend that did quit them and got better with improved health. But then he claims that his doctor stated it may be the host , made of wheat is what is making him ill so he quit recieving Holy Communion off and on. We could not convince him.I have concluded this is dementia, maybe I am wrong.
Positivism gone wrong. Dessert
 
In other words getting to the positveism is the train ride, like the polar express except for the cat:D
Reading about that makes me want to be cremated, if it is acceptable and here is another story for you.

This is true, I worked as a CNA certified nurseing assistant in I think about 1991 or 2 and there was a lady, Louise, that told me specifically she was donating her body to science so I said that was gracious and left the room to get an aspirin as this kind of talk from the elderly was hard to take as she seemed quite healthy.
I quit work there and went to another hospital/nursing home combo to work and then,about 96 back to tech college, and had a class in anatomy of course and who do you think I saw on the table, Louise the cadaver, I had to leave the room and explain that I knew this women and liked her and would have a hard time naming her muscels etc. So I left the room and puked but my instructoer said I should just cover her head and I then reallized I did not think I was ready for nursing, So maybe she was alive for me and still teaching others.

Thanks for letting me talk about this as I had not to any before and the memory is still there but my faith is helping me to not be so afraid of the unknown if a little. Dessert
 
dessert said:
Thanks for letting me talk about this as I had not to any before and the memory is still there but my faith is helping me to not be so afraid of the unknown if a little. Dessert
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Well yes. The act of observing what’s there is a kind of red pin on a worn map; the red pin saying "you are here."

One can, in one’s mind rehearse the journey in all its variations. But it is the anagnoresis of seeing oneself on the map, seeing the point of origin, seeing the destination, and the chasms in between that is the bitter-sweet double vision of morality and immortality.

Speaking of positivism: there was a guy down the street from where I grew up. Little guy. Cute as a button. He grew up to be RumTumTiger in Cats but had a hard time of it along the way and finally God struck him dumb for two years. And he saw the Light.

You know all the time he was growing up he claimed he saw crosses. No one else saw them. But there was one in particular that he saw: a neon blue cross that we think must have been at the convent down the street.

And when he talks about it on his website, all the chasms of time and distance between when he was innocent and when he was struck down on the road: it all disappeared for me.

Because I remembered the neon blue cross. I saw what he did. The neon blue cross existed for me as it did for him. It was real.

:yup:
 
dessert said:
Marxism rejects positivism and views it as subjective idealism, because it limits itself only to facts and does not examine the underlying cause of things

Auguste Comte says society undergoes 3 different phases in it’s quest for the truth. These phases are theological, metaphysical and the positive phases .

What do you think Happens during the positive?

Dessert
Click to expand...
During the positive phase, there will be a new religion. Worship of God will be replaced by worship of humanity. Divine Revelation will be replaced by science. The structures of Catholicism (worship, ritual, authority) will remain in place, but they will be stripped of their supernatural beliefs and replaced with the glorification of humanity.

Comte is a Utopianist and the “father of sociology.”

I am not a philosopher or a sociologist, but I have read two books that talked about Auguste Comte and his philosophy:
The Architects of the Culture of Death by DeMarco and Wiker & Heretics by Chesterton
You can read Heretics which deals with the philosophy of Auguste Comte online:
ccel.org/ccel/chesterton/heretics.vi.html

Both are excellent books.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Well yes. The act of observing

Speaking of positivism: there was a guy down the street from where I grew up. Little guy. Cute as a button. He grew up to be RumTumTiger in Cats but had a hard time of it along the way and finally God struck him dumb for two years. And he saw the Light.

You know all the time he was growing up he claimed he saw crosses. No one else saw them. But there was one in particular that he saw: a neon blue cross that we think must have been at the convent down the street.

And when he talks about it on his website, all the chasms of time and distance between when he was innocent and when he was struck down on the road: it all disappeared for me.

Because I remembered the neon blue cross. I saw what he did. The neon blue cross existed for me as it did for him. It was real.

:yup:
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Your pics of Europe are just too beautiful, they are awesome.
I especially liked the one with the sacred heart etched in stone by the prisoner.
I love new music and will pray for you May 10
I will call to get a CD and tell them it is real name + (Dessert)

My friend Louise, the cadaver then was taking me on her journey with her, what a nice thought you gave me. She was like inviting me to be there.

I am a revert and some that I talk to especially relatives that drifted away act like I am recharing their memory cells, they say to me ;ie. I remember when I used to go to that parish with my mom or dad. I think this is a good part of the positive truth of Jesus.

Now, I certainly do feel like I want to walk down that path.

Sorry to read about all the trouble you had and glad you had someone there to take your hand as did I. Dessert
 
Dessert: I am not David MacDonald.

David grew up on the same street as I did and we know many of the same people. But I am a different person. He is a man. I am a woman. We are both skinny. He is a musician. I love music but can’t even play a tin can.

🙂

I am very happy that you like David’s music. He’s good, isn’t he? And courageous.

His testimony is also very encouraging. St Joseph seems to have been touching many people in David’s group of acquaintances – particularly the oratory of St Joseph in Montreal. David seems to be reaching many people from all over the world with the Gospel of Life. And that is a good thing.

Now back to the topic of the thread which is Compte’s positivism. Thank you.
 
Janet S:
During the positive phase, there will be a new religion. Worship of God will be replaced by worship of humanity. Divine Revelation will be replaced by science.
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Yes, but Compte emphasizes observational science not theoretical science. So even his science needs to be understood in context. Particularly since contemporary science is almost exclusively theoretical because of investigations into quantum mechanics.
(Before yall jump on me, I said almost.) :tiphat:

Also since Compte’s theories – yes he seems to allow himself theories – since Compte’s theories are about sociological observations, our understanding of ‘observation’ needs to allow for the differences among the sciences in terms of how they define observation.
Janet S:
The structures of Catholicism (worship, ritual, authority) will remain in place, but they will be stripped of their supernatural beliefs and replaced with the glorification of humanity.
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Are you saying that the Catholicism will be destroyed?
Janet S:
You can read Heretics which deals with the philosophy of Auguste Comte online: ccel.org/ccel/chesterton/heretics.vi.html
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Thanks for this link, Janet! 🙂
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Dessert: I am not David MacDonald.

David grew up on the same street as I did and we know many of the same people. But I am a different person. He is a man. I am a woman. We are both skinny. He is a musician. I love music but can’t even play a tin can.

🙂

I am very happy that you like David’s music. He’s good, isn’t he? And courageous.

His testimony is also very encouraging. St Joseph seems to have been touching many people in David’s group of acquaintances – particularly the oratory of St Joseph in Montreal. David seems to be reaching many people from all over the world with the Gospel of Life. And that is a good thing.

Now back to the topic of the thread which is Compte’s positivism. Thank you.
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Sorry it took so long this morning to get back to you it is my day off but have got most done. Yes I like the music but my mouse messes up a lot so it didn’t sound clear but I will order it and may be e-mail.

Yes he is pro-life that is wonderful as I used to think pro-choice but can see how important even the smallest is to God. You showed me how we touch each others lives in asmall way or large way and as I said take each other on a journey so I think I see more about what Scott Hahn speaks of the" journeys " , this word is a newer term to me and have not gave it much thought till rediscovering the RCC. ( As I have read one of his books, I can say quietly I do not think he has it all straight it has a protestant / only because I see some of the deception I did believe and trying to deprogram out of my mind but somemtimes fail:blush: so I will continue to maybe just meybe buy his stuff on line half price my DH gets for me at Amazon but now I have a book that Mike Aquilina wrote and it is good and I think Scott hooked up with him with a book. IMHO this is what Scott needs to do get with a good Catholic Author. )

In other words Comte theorizes you have to go through a theolgical stage. He sounds something like a Charles Dickens.

I see in the refute about Comte leaning to socialism.
I wonder what he thought of the ten commandments as the social structure of the Church? Dessert
 
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dessert:
In other words Comte theorizes you have to go through a theolgical stage. He sounds something like a Charles Dickens.
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How?
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dessert:
I see in the refute about Comte leaning to socialism.
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Was it socialism or sociology?
 
Ani_Ibi said:
How?
It sounds like Comte’s three stages could be used to make a good novel. And they are both writing about society.

Was it socialism or sociology?
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Doesn’t this mean the same?

I didn’t think Fetishism as like a god or theo stage.

Look at the end of his life or the beginning you could say he gets an interest in religion? Isn’t he doing the reverse or what was his own belief Fet Poly or Mono kind of funny I think.

The wiki says it led to functionalism this is more interesting!
 
dessert said:
Marxism rejects positivism and views it as subjective idealism, because it limits itself only to facts and does not examine the underlying cause of things

Auguste Comte says society undergoes 3 different phases in it’s quest for the truth. These phases are theological, metaphysical and the positive phases .

What do you think Happens during the positive?

Dessert
Click to expand...
I’m not exactly sure what happens during the positive, but when a society doesn’t accept anything that can’t be measured or explained with science, I think it would make for a very boring society. It’s like watching the bloopers of movies or watching movies on how another movie was made. It ruins it! It’s like looking at a painting under a microscope to explore the chemical composition of the paint, rather than enjoying the work of art. As a musician, I tell the world what I want to tell them through music. There is a predictable framework that can be looked at mathematically, but the artistic side of it can’t really be measured scientifically- and no true artist would dare try.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Yes, but Compte emphasizes observational science not theoretical science. So even his science needs to be understood in context. Particularly since contemporary science is almost exclusively theoretical because of investigations into quantum mechanics.
(Before yall jump on me, I said almost.) :tiphat:

Also since Compte’s theories – yes he seems to allow himself theories – since Compte’s theories are about sociological observations, our understanding of ‘observation’ needs to allow for the differences among the sciences in terms of how they define observation.

Are you saying that the Catholicism will be destroyed?
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Here’s more about Auguste Comte:
maritain.nd.edu/jmc/etext/jmoral11.htm
Moral Philosophy by Jacques Maritain

Comte had written in his youth, “Everything is relative, that’s the only thing absolute.” According to Maritain, Comte is a relativist about everything including his “science” (of phenomena.) Comte would say that what we hold to be true today may not be true tomorrow.

(The irony is, though, that Comte dogmatically asserted that his theories were the absolute truth!)

In positivism, Catholicism would be destroyed, but in an unconventional way–it would be replaced. Comte said “one destroys only what one replaces”. He considered medieval Catholicism a “political masterpiece of human wisdom,” and would copy many of its structures (or what he believed were its structures) to build his utopia.
 
Janet_S said:
In positivism, Catholicism would be destroyed, but in an unconventional way–it would be replaced.
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Replaced by Cafeteria Catholicism likely. :o

Thanks for this link. I’ll read it some time today.
 
m134e5 said:
I’m not exactly sure what happens during the positive, but when a society doesn’t accept anything that can’t be measured or explained with science, I think it would make for a very boring society. It’s like watching the bloopers of movies or watching movies on how another movie was made. It ruins it! It’s like looking at a painting under a microscope to explore the chemical composition of the paint, rather than enjoying the work of art. As a musician, I tell the world what I want to tell them through music. There is a predictable framework that can be looked at mathematically, but the artistic side of it can’t really be measured scientifically- and no true artist would dare try.
Click to expand...
Since you are into music but not like the David on the thread why are some Psalms music very wordy and lots of notes?
In a different parish you had to take a big breath to get thru the psalm and I’m not sure where the priest got these. No notes or copywrite just his copies.
The parish I am at now the psalms are sing songy, much better and at daily they are more of a cantor which I am not that fond of.

Do you have a site for the Psalms (english) ? Dessert
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Replaced by Cafeteria Catholicism likely. :o

Thanks for this link. I’ll read it some time today.
Click to expand...
That’s interesting. I can’t say I understand the motive of Cafeteria Catholics, but I can see some similarities between them and Comte. In both, there is a tendency to keep the structures of Catholicism in place while destroying its essence.
 
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