Philosophy majors

[sticknstring73]

I am starting to think I should go back to school. When I was last in college (1000 years ago) I was very good in psychology but I do not feel the pull to get back into it. Currently I am thinking about going back for philosophy but I have a few questions. Hopefully any philosophy majors can clear these questions up.

1. Besides the possibility of teaching, what will you do with your philosophy degree?
2. Was there anything in your pursuit of philosophy that shook your faith?
3. Do you regret your decision to study this field? Did you change majors?

Any info would help.

 

[e_c]

Good decision!

1. You could teach, go to seminary, or be that stereotypical “wise janitor.” But actually, a lot of careers are aided by a degree that has taught you how to think about things systematically.
2. There are occasionally things you will encounter that throw you off, but not in the way you might think. For instance, you might find Descartes’ initial moves convincing, but then come to the (right) conclusion that his argument in favor of the external world fails… and then worry about whether or not there is such a thing as the universe since you’ve not encountered a convincing repudiation of the Cartesian method. You’ll just have to keep reading! There is always a calm before the storm in the history of philosophy. Stick with the calm ones as a base and you’ll be fine, but be sure to “enter into” the storm.
3. No! Go for it!

 

[Rhubarb]

I majored in philosophy.

1. Philosophy is a great discipline to lead into grad school and/or professional school. Barring that, it emphasizes critical thinking and communication so basically anything that doesn’t require technical knowledge (read: hard science, accounting, etc) is fair game.
2. Academic philosophy isn’t in the business of shaking faith. It IS in the business of critically evaluating and considering your beliefs. But belief in the broadest term, not just in the religious way. What I learned in my time in university is that for undergrad philosophy the conclusions themselves aren’t so important, in so much as the reasoning that lead you to your conclusion is. My professors LOVED when students crafted a unique argument or had creative insights that challenged their own personal and professional beliefs.

3 My only regret is that after the fact, I can’t get a job working in my field right after college like my engineer friends did. But that’s the same for most humanities and social science degrees. If your only goal in education is job placement you should be looking at engineering/science, economics, business, accounting, or a trade. You study philosophy because you love it and want to train yourself to think.

 

[fisherman_carl]

I majored in philosophy.

1. Philosophy is a great discipline to lead into grad school and/or professional school. Barring that, it emphasizes critical thinking and communication so basically anything that doesn’t require technical knowledge (read: hard science, accounting, etc) is fair game.
2. Academic philosophy isn’t in the business of shaking faith. It IS in the business of critically evaluating and considering your beliefs. But belief in the broadest term, not just in the religious way. What I learned in my time in university is that for undergrad philosophy the conclusions themselves aren’t so important, in so much as the reasoning that lead you to your conclusion is. My professors LOVED when students crafted a unique argument or had creative insights that challenged their own personal and professional beliefs.

3 My only regret is that after the fact, I can’t get a job working in my field right after college like my engineer friends did. But that’s the same for most humanities and social science degrees. If your only goal in education is job placement you should be looking at engineering/science, economics, business, accounting, or a trade. You study philosophy because you love it and want to train yourself to think.

Where did you go to school? And if philosophy is so great then why are you an agnostic?

I would say that good philosophy should lead to true conclusions. Otherwise, there is no point to doing philosophy. Good philosophy should narrow your mind, not broaden it.

 

[Rhubarb]

Where did you go to school? And if philosophy is so great then why are you an agnostic?

I went to the University of California at Davis. Philosophy is so great because it teaches a systematic way of thinking about… anything, really. If you approach a question looking for a road map to a conclusion you want, then you’ve already made missteps. I’m an agnostic because it seems to me that claims for and against God’s existence both have merit and problems. I am not an atheist for the same reason I’m not religious - based on what I know neither is bullet proof.

But that’s not what this thread is about. I’d be happy to discuss my own personal reasons in IMs.

 

[sticknstring73]

Thank you both for responding. I’ve got some looking around to do now, if I can find a decent night program, etc. Thanks!

 

[sticknstring73]

Where did you go to school? And if philosophy is so great then why are you an agnostic?

I would say that good philosophy should lead to true conclusions. Otherwise, there is no point to doing philosophy. Good philosophy should narrow your mind, not broaden it.

Philosophy would not necessarily bring you to God. I believe what Rhubarb is saying based on the idea that my faith is based on FAITH. There are things that would point to the reality of God but they fall short, they are written by men. That’s where my faith comes in.

 

[fisherman_carl]

I went to the University of California at Davis. Philosophy is so great because it teaches a systematic way of thinking about… anything, really. If you approach a question looking for a road map to a conclusion you want, then you’ve already made missteps. I’m an agnostic because it seems to me that claims for and against God’s existence both have merit and problems. I am not an atheist for the same reason I’m not religious - based on what I know neither is bullet proof.

But that’s not what this thread is about. I’d be happy to discuss my own personal reasons in IMs.

I like philosophy too, but for me it is about discovering truth, not just good reasoning. You need both. I understand what you are saying about the road map to a conclusion you want. However, I don’t think that anyone is unbiased in their philosophy. Including the atheist or agnostic. For the Christian though, he doesn’t have to use philosophy to come to a belief in God if he has the witness of the Holy Spirit in him since he knows God. But, philosophical arguments for God can be useful for other reasons for the Christian.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Philosophy would not necessarily bring you to God. I believe what Rhubarb is saying based on the idea that my faith is based on FAITH. There are things that would point to the reality of God but they fall short, they are written by men. That’s where my faith comes in.

The arguments that I have seen for God like from Aquinas and others do an adequate job in my opinion to show the existence of God. Logical arguments for God can bring down objections that people have about say the rationality of belief in God, but as you say they do not bring someone into faith. As supernatural faith is a gift from God. However, natural faith can come through philosophy. Just look at Aristotle for instance.

 

[Rhubarb]

Philosophy would not necessarily bring you to God. I believe what Rhubarb is saying based on the idea that my faith is based on FAITH. There are things that would point to the reality of God but they fall short, they are written by men. That’s where my faith comes in.

Sort of! I have no problem with philosophy leading people to a belief in God. There are strong arguments for God, and for religious… uh. Things. There are strong arguments against, too.

 

[Rhubarb]

I would say that good philosophy should lead to true conclusions. Otherwise, there is no point to doing philosophy. Good philosophy should narrow your mind, not broaden it.

Surely, philosophy leads to truth. But when you start going down the rabbit holes that are philosophic theories, you find that there is always more to be said and always points of attack. Take a question in philosophy of science, a huuuuuuuuuuuge branch. Talking about, say, the concept of species, brings up questions of epistemology,metaphysics, logic, language, even aesthetics. Intending to tie off loose ends opens up more problems that need addressing. Most works I read in contemporary philosophy end with a chapter or two about things that still need more fleshing out, or what isn’t explained by the author’s theory.

Theories are also built on foundational theories that can be attacked to undermine the theory itself. I should also point out that I’ve only got my BA with a sliver or grad work under my belt. That barely scratches the surface.

Another thing I learned through it was that it’s okay to say “I feel this way about topic X - I can’t justify it, it’s just my intuition” within reason. It doesn’t sway people to say it, but we all have intuitions about subjects. For example - someone might strongly feel that unjust laws are not laws at all. (As natural law theorists,in regard to philosophy of law, believe.) They could be presented with a valid and sound argument that supports legal positivism (which is contrary to natural law theory) and still feel that positivism is wrong in law.

 

[signit]

Great question, one that really hits home:

1. Besides the possibility of teaching, what will you do with your philosophy degree?

Well:

3 My only regret is that after the fact, I can’t get a job working in my field right after college like my engineer friends did. But that’s the same for most humanities and social science degrees. If your only goal in education is job placement you should be looking at engineering/science, economics, business, accounting, or a trade. You study philosophy because you love it and want to train yourself to think.

This is important.

A philosophy degree or any other liberal arts degree will not get your foot in the door with employers the way one of these other degrees will. Employers are looking for people with job skills, who can come in on day one and contribute. Obviously engineering firms hire engineering grads, not philosophy grads to train in engineering.

Employers will say they respect liberal arts degrees and the “soft skills” associated with them but I understand that this advantage comes into play later in your career.

Some people indeed get hired with liberal arts degrees but to my knowledge they either had family connections or other connections that I did not, or they were top students from the “right” schools.

I ought to know; I had to get a graduate business degree ten years after graduation and still wasn’t in as good of a spot as those just getting bachelor’s degrees.

I can’t tell other people what to do as I’m not in their situation, but I can share my experience.

 

[inocente]

1. Was there anything in your pursuit of philosophy that shook your faith?

You reminded me of a warning from Michael Sandel in his class recorded at Harvard:

“To read these books [of philosophy], in this way, as an exercise in self-knowledge, carries certain risks. Risks that are both personal and political. Risks that every student of political philosophy has known. These risks spring from the fact that philosophy teaches us, and unsettles us, by confronting us with what we already know. There’s an irony: the difficulty of this course consists in the fact that it teaches what you already know. It works by taking what we know from familiar unquestioned settings, and making it strange. …] Philosophy estranges us from the familiar, not by supplying new information, but by inviting and provoking a new way of seeing.

But, and here’s the risk, once the familiar turns strange, it is never quite the same again. Self-knowledge is like lost innocence; however unsettling you find it, it can never be ‘unthought’ or ‘unknown’. What makes this enterprise difficult, but also riveting, is that moral and political philosophy is a story, and you don’t know where the story would lead, but you do know that the story is about you.”

First two lectures in the course (with over six million views!) - youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR-8hEY
Quote from goodreads.com/quotes/653724-to-read-these-books-in-this-way-as-an-exercise

 

[Rhubarb]

Great question, one that really hits home:

Well:

This is important.

A philosophy degree or any other liberal arts degree will not get your foot in the door with employers the way one of these other degrees will. Employers are looking for people with job skills, who can come in on day one and contribute. Obviously engineering firms hire engineering grads, not philosophy grads to train in engineering.

Employers will say they respect liberal arts degrees and the “soft skills” associated with them but I understand that this advantage comes into play later in your career.

Some people indeed get hired with liberal arts degrees but to my knowledge they either had family connections or other connections that I did not, or they were top students from the “right” schools.

I ought to know; I had to get a graduate business degree ten years after graduation and still wasn’t in as good of a spot as those just getting bachelor’s degrees.

I can’t tell other people what to do as I’m not in their situation, but I can share my experience.

Yes and no. Humanities and such do provide job skills for some work, mostly clerical in nature. I got a job in a litigation support services firm immediately after I graduated. But it’s not the high paying end-game career that an engineer looks for. It all depends on how you leverage your degree and what other skills are brought to the table. My friend got her degree in philosophy and now is an IT officer for a firm making 120k a year.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

**1. Besides the possibility of teaching, what will you do with your philosophy degree?

1. Was there anything in your pursuit of philosophy that shook your faith?
2. Do you regret your decision to study this field? Did you change majors?**
3. Write Books.
4. Yes. The confusion that resulted from reading so many confused and contrary philosophers.
5. No. It took me a long time to grow beyond the confusion. There are still many huge and unsolved mysteries, but I am more fortified to solve them because of philosophy.

(Philosophy was really my minor … English literature my major … but after many years philosophy became my lifelong major after I learned to tutor myself in the subject. There is much to be said for following this path, as many a philosopher is improved by a happy acquaintance with the great literature of the ages. The dullest philosophers to read … like John Dewey, I suspect … are those who never in their youth practiced well the reading and writing of elegant prose.).

 

[signit]

Yes and no. Humanities and such do provide job skills for some work, mostly clerical in nature. I got a job in a litigation support services firm immediately after I graduated. But it’s not the high paying end-game career that an engineer looks for. It all depends on how you leverage your degree and what other skills are brought to the table. My friend got her degree in philosophy and now is an IT officer for a firm making 120k a year.

Thanks for this.

I can only go by my own experience; I certainly didn’t have employers having a “bidding war” for my services. Perhaps the philosophy major who became an IT officer had IT skills in addition to, or as part of, her degree.

Just as a quick follow-up, there was an article in the WSJ today suggesting that outside of STEM fields it does make a difference where you get your degree.

wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-higher-salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674

Maybe the “more desirable” colleges are more desirable to employers or provide better “connections,” or maybe the people who go there are more connected to begin with.

 

[Rhubarb]

Thanks for this.

I can only go by my own experience; I certainly didn’t have employers having a “bidding war” for my services. Perhaps the philosophy major who became an IT officer had IT skills in addition to, or as part of, her degree.

Just as a quick follow-up, there was an article in the WSJ today suggesting that outside of STEM fields it does make a difference where you get your degree.

wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-higher-salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674

Maybe the “more desirable” colleges are more desirable to employers or provide better “connections,” or maybe the people who go there are more connected to begin with.

It’s true, she knows her way around computers. But so any jobs require a BA or BS, and they don’t really care in what.

I describe a philosophy undergrad degree as the quitessential going-back-to-grad-school degree. I qualify for grad programs in pretty much every field in the humanities, a few sciences, law, divinity, teaching credentials, and medical school if I take another quarter or two for the statistics and organic chemistry requirements. In fact, I read that Cedar Sinai was looking for humanites majors for their medical programs specifically.