Philosophy: The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired

[Ani_Ibi]

By believing passionately in something That still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired. (Franz Kafka)

Surely if I decide to passionately believe and fervently desire that Bugs Bunny will bring me a latte every morning, I will continue to be latte-less?

So there is a specific realm in which Kafka’s claim is true?

[PS: I know I used a split infinitive. I reckon, since Star Trek, its part of the popular lexicon.]

 

[dball909]

The Castle was a BORING read! And I read a lot!

By the way, good Bugs Bunny analogy!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

OK, let’s see if we can move this along with some more questions:

Is ‘desiring sufficiently’ merely desiring ‘the good’?

Presumably God is the Creator. Therefore it is God Who brings the nonexistent into existence. And that, as God Himself said in Genesis, is good.

Does our desire, post-Fall, have any role in bringing into existence what God wants brought into existence?

Thoughts?

 

[Everstruggling]

Perhaps if ***everyone *** believed that, Bugs would be whipping up the foam as we speak. Or perhaps it is just to far removed from what you think is possible for you to start really believing it.

It is of course impossible to test that, because no matter how much you convince yourself that you believe it, it might not be enough. It is a little like the travelling evangelist who tells people that they weren’t healed because they didn’t have enough faith. There is no telling how much is enough.

 

[cpayne]

OK, let’s see if we can move this along with some more questions:

Is ‘desiring sufficiently’ merely desiring ‘the good’?

Presumably God is the Creator. Therefore it is God Who brings the nonexistent into existence. And that, as God Himself said in Genesis, is good.

Does our desire, post-Fall, have any role in bringing into existence what God wants brought into existence?

Thoughts?

“By grace through faith” is definitely a N.T. principle, but “by grace through passionate desire” I’m not so sure about. As you wrote, God has brought the nonexistent into existence. In grace, God gives abundantly “all things pertaining to life and godliness.” Our faith in that grace helps bring it into existence in our lives (how enobling of God to allow us to help Him accomplish His gracious purposes).

So faith having a “role in bringing into existence what God wants brought into existence”? I’d say yes, definitely. Desire? Well, I don’t think so, unless our desire lines up with our faith. “He will give you the desires of your heart” (from Proverbs somewhere) has two meanings–don’t the desires come from God in the first place? He gives THEM before He GIVES them, if that makes any sense.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

cpayne:

Our faith in that grace helps bring it into existence in our lives (how enobling of God to allow us to help Him accomplish His gracious purposes).

Oh yes.

So faith having a “role in bringing into existence what God wants brought into existence”? I’d say yes, definitely. Desire? Well, I don’t think so, unless our desire lines up with our faith.

Yes, that was what I was suggesting: to desire ‘the good.’ But how do we know ‘the good’ in order to desire it?

Thoughts?

“He will give you the desires of your heart” (from Proverbs somewhere) has two meanings–don’t the desires come from God in the first place? He gives THEM before He GIVES them, if that makes any sense.

No, not following. Can you give examples please? Thank you.

I’ve often wondered what giving us the desires of our heart is. Does God not sometimes indulge us with little things that might make us happy while at the same time continuing to teach us to desire ‘the good’?

7:9. Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?

7:10. Or if he shall ask him a fish, will he reach him a serpent?

7:11. If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him? Mt 7:9-11 (DRC)

Thoughts?

 

[Truthstalker]

Oh yes.

Yes, that was what I was suggesting: to desire ‘the good.’ But how do we know ‘the good’ in order to desire it?

Thoughts?

No, not following. Can you give examples please? Thank you.

I’ve often wondered what giving us the desires of our heart is. Does God not sometimes indulge us with little things that might make us happy while at the same time continuing to teach us to desire ‘the good’?

Thoughts?

I’m thinking of spending a lot more time praying and less time posting, personally.

I’m thinking of passages in C.S.Lewis’ The Weight of Glory, in particular the passage about reading Greek turning from a chore to a pleasure. I think good is like olives - an acquired taste. I think also of Hebrews 12. He disciplines us for our good that we might share His holiness.

Will is an appetite according to Aquinas, and we cannot really desire anything but good (an odd thought in today’s world!). If we understand our appetite properly, we will will only good, and the kingdom of God will advance as every thought is taken captive to Christ and His order comes into a chaotic world.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Truthstalker:

I’m thinking of spending a lot more time praying and less time posting, personally.

Yes, me too. Praying, organizing my bookmarks, reading, and only some time posting.

Truthstalker:

I’m thinking of passages in C.S.Lewis’ The Weight of Glory, in particular the passage about reading Greek turning from a chore to a pleasure.

I haven’t read this one.

Truthstalker:

I think good is like olives - an acquired taste.

Yes. Youth is wasted on the young. Think of all the olives I could have eaten!

Truthstalker:

I think also of Hebrews 12. He disciplines us for our good that we might share His holiness.

12:5. And you have forgotten the consolation which speaketh to you, as unto children, saying: My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord: neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him.

12:6. For whom the Lord loveth he chastiseth: and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

12:7. Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons. For what son is there whom the father doth not correct?

12:8. But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards and not sons.

12:9. Moreover, we have had fathers of our flesh for instructors, and we reverenced them. Shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits and live?

12:10. And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification.

12:11. Now all chastisement for the present indeed seemeth not to bring with it joy, but sorrow: but afterwards it will yield to them that are exercised by it the most peaceable fruit of justice. Hb 12:5-10 DRC

Justice being ‘the good.’

Truthstalker:

Will is an appetite according to Aquinas, and we cannot really desire anything but good (an odd thought in today’s world!).

Do you believe that Aquinas has a good point, but that folks are persuaded that mere shadows of good are actual good? And that folks settle for too little? They settle for the shadows, thinking that that is all there is? Or – even worse – that that is all they can desire?

Truthstalker:

If we understand our appetite properly, we will will only good, and the kingdom of God will advance as every thought is taken captive to Christ and His order comes into a chaotic world.

Yes. I understand your desire for prayer. God bless.