Photo Identification Laws

[McatholicN]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? On the one hand, these laws would probably actually help pro-life, pro-family politicians (or at least that’s the claim), but on the other hand, wouldn’t it be wrong to make it harder for some people to vote, even if they will likely vote for candidates who support the non-negotiables?

Regardless of your personal view on whether it’s justified given voter fraud and other factors, what should be taken into account as a Catholic? Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

 

[Mar044]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? On the one hand, these laws would probably actually help pro-life, pro-family politicians (or at least that’s the claim), but on the other hand, wouldn’t it be wrong to make it harder for some people to vote, even if they will likely vote for candidates who support the non-negotiables?

Regardless of your personal view on whether it’s justified given voter fraud and other factors, what should be taken into account as a Catholic? Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

we have had voter id for a long time, you show your id and voter card when you come in, thats it, it prevents people from saying they are you or voter fraud from many fake ballots. you can use any government id like drivers license, if you can drive you can vote etc…or use other id.

in the middle east they ask for thumb print…

i think people are hypocrites who spread democracy but get accept their own.

 

[McatholicN]

we have had voter id for a long time, you show your id and voter card when you come in, thats it, it prevents people from saying they are you or voter fraud from many fake ballots. you can use any government id like drivers license, if you can drive you can vote etc…or use other id.

in the middle east they ask for thumb print…

i think people are hypocrites who spread democracy but get accept their own.

But from a moral standpoint, would it be wrong to vote for such things considering that it may make victory for socially liberal candidates easier.

Regardless of any personal views about other aspects of it…

 

[sedonaman]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? … Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

Why not? Citizens have a right to have confidence in the election process, otherwise, fewer people will vote if fraud goes unchecked. Just yesterday, someone was arrested for trying to vote twice. They took the suspect away in handcuffs. :extrahappy:

On the other hand, unreasonable hurdles should not be placed in front of voters, and voters have an obligation to satisfy reasonable requirements. Since photo IDs are required almost everywhere you do business, seeing it as unreasonable is unreasonable itself. One of the more absurd complaints is that it requires the voter to go somewhere to obtain an ID. Well, that’s true, but he has to go somewhere to register, and I’ve heard no complaints about impediments to registering. Like complaints that drug laws disproportionally impact drug users, ID laws disproportionally impact those who lack initiative to keep the process honest.

 

[abort73catholic]

My brother and I went to vote early at the courthouse when we were home during our college fall break. My friend and suitemate, a Californian, spent break with us, and so she was with us when we went to vote. She sat in a chair while we went to the window to ask for our ballots. The lady asked for our names, and she looked for them in her list of registered voters (it’s a rural area, doesn’t take long). She gave us our ballots without asking for any form of ID. She even asked my friend from California if she wanted a ballot. If my friend had known the name of someone in our county, she could have pretended to be someone else and voted for a second time, in a state in which she does not reside.

Perhaps the lady at the window thought that because it’s a rural area, she would likely know if we had given a different name and pretended to be someone else (you know, “everyone knows everyone” type of place). However, I can’t help but think that some form of a Voter ID law would not be such a bad thing.

I think sedonaman sums up my sentiments nicely.

 

[on_the_hill]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? On the one hand, these laws would probably actually help pro-life, pro-family politicians (or at least that’s the claim), but on the other hand, wouldn’t it be wrong to make it harder for some people to vote, even if they will likely vote for candidates who support the non-negotiables?

Regardless of your personal view on whether it’s justified given voter fraud and other factors, what should be taken into account as a Catholic? Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

My first (possibly only) reaction: Vote according to what the data say about voter fraud. If evidence proves there is voter fraud in the state, then tighten the rules for voting. If there is little to no evidence of voter fraud, then forget about it. There is, to me, nothing inherently Catholic about it. It’s a matter of legal reform.

 

[superamazingman]

we have had voter id for a long time, you show your id and voter card when you come in, thats it, it prevents people from saying they are you or voter fraud from many fake ballots. you can use any government id like drivers license, if you can drive you can vote etc…or use other id.

in the middle east they ask for thumb print…

i think people are hypocrites who spread democracy but get accept their own.

The church isn’t against asking for an ID to drive, buy beer, get into a college, get on a plane, get something notarized, open a bank account, register for college, apply for Food Stamps, Medicaid or welfare (ironically enough), Apply for Unemployment, Cash a check, Get a mortgage, Get married, Get a job, or even take the stinking SAT test.

To say that requiring an ID to vote is unreasonable is laughable. In order to function normally in today’s world, you need an ID. It’s just what you do. And in many states, including Wisconsin, they are giving them out for free, so there’s really no excuse not to have one.

 

[sedonaman]

…Voter ID is little more than a political tool being used by Republicans to discourage people from voting. …

Where is your evidence? Cite some actual cases where Democrat voters have been discouraged by voter ID laws. My wife is a Democrat in a heavily Republican state with a photo ID law, and she has never had any trouble voting. On the other hand, we have photo evidence of the New Black Panther bullies intimidating white voters. :sad_yes:

 

[sedonaman]

…
I think sedonaman sums up my sentiments nicely.

Thanks for your kind words.

 

[Don_Jackson]

It was so much nicer when one could be a good American and a good catholic, but our faith seems to have been infiltrated by modern day Herodians and Pharisees who think their politics make them both patriots an godly, while those who don’t vote in lockstep with them - whether conservative republican or liberal democrat - are sinners and traitors! It makes me understand how someone might be ashamed of being an American or a catholic.

Lord Jesus I put all my trust in you, knowing long after any politician is out of office that you will still be guiding us. I pray Election Day comes and goes quickly. Amen

 

[JerryZ]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? On the one hand, these laws would probably actually help pro-life, pro-family politicians (or at least that’s the claim), but on the other hand, wouldn’t it be wrong to make it harder for some people to vote, even if they will likely vote for candidates who support the non-negotiables?

Regardless of your personal view on whether it’s justified given voter fraud and other factors, what should be taken into account as a Catholic? Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

Harder? In Europe South America which is where I am more familiar with you will not vote unless you have an ID.

You still can have voter fraud but it is mostly perpretated by the governments trying to perpetuate themselves in power.

 

[maltmom]

We have to show ID to pick up certain prescriptions, buy OTC decongestants, open a bank account, cash a check, when we fill out paperwork in a doctor or dentist’s office, etc. Why is it unreasonable to show it to vote? An ID is easy to get.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

What should someone take into account as a Catholic regarding the voter photo identification and ammendments that are currently being debated here in America? On the one hand, these laws would probably actually help pro-life, pro-family politicians (or at least that’s the claim), but on the other hand, wouldn’t it be wrong to make it harder for some people to vote, even if they will likely vote for candidates who support the non-negotiables?

Regardless of your personal view on whether it’s justified given voter fraud and other factors, what should be taken into account as a Catholic? Could there be moral obligation to vote on it a certain way?

There probably is no direct from Catholicism obligation - other than to think about it and do what seems best.

But in regards to the issues you raise: I do not think we can say it’s always wrong to make it harder for a person to vote, but only that it would be wrong to make it unreasonably difficult for a person to vote.

So the question is “is obtaining and showing a photo id an unreasonable burden to put on people, given that without such measures people could vote in place of others?”

I would think the answer is no, and as such I support voter id laws. However, I would not go so far as to say that such support (and obviously I don’t think opposition) is required by Catholic teaching.

If somehow you came to the conclusion that a voter id law was an unfair burden, then you should oppose such laws - and while I could fault the reasoning you used to determine that it was an unfair burden, and thus think you’re opposition was wrong, and even try to change your mind (and you could do the same to me) neither one of us could say that the other wasn’t following Catholic teaching if we were both sincerely trying to apply the principles to the issue at hand.

(And given the way our system works, I’m pretty sure manipulating who can vote and who can’t to achieve better ends would count as dishonesty. We could try to come up with another system of government, or we can try to make the one we have now work better, but I do not think that we could claim to be in our sort of democracy and dishonestly deny votes to people who we think are wrong, even if we are certain they actually are, under the guise of making things more fair. So I do not think we can consider the way the people likely to be most effected would vote at all - if it’s an unfair burden compared to its benefits in preventing fraud, it’s not acceptable, and if it is a fair burden considering its ability to prevent fraud then it is.)

 

[rfournier103]

I definately think one should have to produce some kind of ID to vote. How else will we know that they are who they say they are? AND… if someone wants to vote really badly and does not have a driver’s license, perhaps an authorized state picture ID may be furnished (ahead of time, of course). You have to show ID at the liquor store, to get a library card, to use a credit card, to buy a house, rent an apartment, check into a hotel, rent a car, make a withdrawal at the bank, register a gun, get a perscription at the drugstore… why not at the ballot box?

 

[hn160]

I don’t know what the problem is with voter identification, I can not get a blood test or visit my doctor at the medical clinic without proper identification that includes a photo. The ones that seem to want no identification are in favor of non-citizens voting.

 

[on_the_hill]

Where is your evidence? Cite some actual cases where Democrat voters have been discouraged by voter ID laws. My wife is a Democrat in a heavily Republican state with a photo ID law, and she has never had any trouble voting. On the other hand, we have photo evidence of the New Black Panther bullies intimidating white voters. :sad_yes:

Hey man, I’m a registered Republican and have been since 1985.

The state where I live passed a voter ID bill which was challenged in court. The judge asked the defendants, (Republcans, essentially), for proof of voter fraud. They couldn’t produce any.

I agree that everyone should be able to easily get a valid ID. I had a girlfriend who never had a drivers license, but as soon as she turned 21 she ran down to the state driver license center to get a photo ID so she could get into bars. So it’s a matter of priorities, I guess.

However, I abhor, I eschew hypocrisy, especially in elected officials. When the majority leader of our state legislature (a Republican) addressed a meeting of the state GOP and said about passing voter ID, ‘Now we’re sure to win the state for Romney,’ when the people who engineered the voter ID law cannot produce evidence that voter fraud exists, I tend to believe that it was all about disenfranchising populations that are primarily Democrat. The ends do not justify the means.

I favor Republican ideals, but the Republican Party is pushing me away in a hurry.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I don’t know what the problem is with voter identification, I can not get a blood test or visit my doctor at the medical clinic without proper identification that includes a photo. The ones that seem to want no identification are in favor of non-citizens voting.

Just so. Nor can one - at least around here - get on a plane, rent a car, get a library card, open a bank account, get hired for a job, or collect your tickets at the Will Call window of a theatre without a photo ID. Yet no one seems to claim any of that is either intimidating or discriminatory.

 

[sedonaman]

Hey man, I’m a registered Republican and have been since 1985.

That’s your evidence? Well, I’ve been a registered Republican since 1964.

The state where I live passed a voter ID bill which was challenged in court. The judge asked the defendants, (Republcans, essentially), for proof of voter fraud. They couldn’t produce any.

I don’t think proof of voter fraud is necessary in the case of elections; the law is simply pre-empting it.

I agree that everyone should be able to easily get a valid ID. I had a girlfriend who never had a drivers license, but as soon as she turned 21 she ran down to the state driver license center to get a photo ID so she could get into bars. So it’s a matter of priorities, I guess.

Agreed.

However, I abhor, I eschew hypocrisy, especially in elected officials. When the majority leader of our state legislature (a Republican) addressed a meeting of the state GOP and said about passing voter ID, ‘Now we’re sure to win the state for Romney,’ when the people who engineered the voter ID law cannot produce evidence that voter fraud exists, I tend to believe that it was all about disenfranchising populations that are primarily Democrat. The ends do not justify the means. …

So, requiring an ID won’t have any effect, since people are honest, and it is easy to get an ID.

 

[on_the_hill]

It’s about winning elections, pure and simple. If the GOP weren’t fighting for the White House it would never have come up to begin with.

I think people should be prepared to show ID. I’ve been asked to show ID a number of times over the years. Usually I just show it whether or not they ask for it.

But let’s call a spade a spade. Voter ID isn’t about preserving the integrity of the process.