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Maxirad
Guest
Are any CAF members disturbed by this piece?
Piece by Michael Barone concerning Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
I have personal experience with Japanese. It was an open secret in 1945 that the war was already over. They were depleted in every way - resources, morale - only they could not voice negative opinions openly. I believe that dropping the atomic bombs were more a message to Russia who could have easily come down and occupied Hokkaido.
If the motives were retribution and revenge, usually the perpetrators never suffer the consequences but innocent people often do. Justice should be carried out but Christian victors should not stoop to the level of the vanquished even if their leaders perpetrated atrocities.
If the motives were retribution and revenge, usually the perpetrators never suffer the consequences but innocent people often do. Justice should be carried out but Christian victors should not stoop to the level of the vanquished even if their leaders perpetrated atrocities.
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Viki63
Guest
The whole issue is disturbing,
The author argues that maybe “the horror which contemplation of those bombings naturally inspires may have served to inoculate world leaders against using nuclear weapons again.”
It’s a valid point. Many people feel that dropping the bombs resulted in fewer people’s deaths than continuing the war would have done. No one can know for sure. Those who made the decision did the best they could under the circumstances.
The subject is controversial and no doubt will remain so for the forseeable future.
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The author argues that maybe “the horror which contemplation of those bombings naturally inspires may have served to inoculate world leaders against using nuclear weapons again.”
It’s a valid point. Many people feel that dropping the bombs resulted in fewer people’s deaths than continuing the war would have done. No one can know for sure. Those who made the decision did the best they could under the circumstances.
The subject is controversial and no doubt will remain so for the forseeable future.
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
This thread has potential for becoming a 
thread.
The Catholic church deems such acts to be war crimes. Or I guess not just war, since the church isn’t a court.
We can’t judge those who made such decisions under pressure but in hindsight can acknowledge that they were horrendous inexcusable acts. Just like nepalm.
thread.The Catholic church deems such acts to be war crimes. Or I guess not just war, since the church isn’t a court.
We can’t judge those who made such decisions under pressure but in hindsight can acknowledge that they were horrendous inexcusable acts. Just like nepalm.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Maybe the USA should have surrendered.
Japan was not standing down.
And they had strategic reserves set aside to fight the anticipated invasion. AND they had figured out accurately where we were going to land.
We found the Japanese navy GINORMOUS I-400 submarines … they carried BOMBER airplanes.
Much later the Japanese navy nuclear weapons development laboratory at Wonson Korea was discovered … captured by Russia … became part of North Korea.
Japan was not standing down.
And they had strategic reserves set aside to fight the anticipated invasion. AND they had figured out accurately where we were going to land.
We found the Japanese navy GINORMOUS I-400 submarines … they carried BOMBER airplanes.
Much later the Japanese navy nuclear weapons development laboratory at Wonson Korea was discovered … captured by Russia … became part of North Korea.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
Japan was finished and they knew it. They were short in everything starting with food.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were largely Christian towns, so pulverizing them made even less sense.
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Monte_RCMS
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
I am now reading Liddell Hart’s “History of the Second World War”. I’ll let you know when I get to the end. Obviously the situation is complex. I did hear the argument, however, that this bomb would have never been used in Europe. And I do think that after reading books on the subject, the most recent one, Ron Zweigenberg’s “Hiroshima”, a scholarly work, there is more than meets the eye. I am convinced that having done so was more a message to Russia.
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edwest2
Guest
As soon as the war was over in Europe, the Russians were heading for Japan.
The Japanese lacked the resources to continue fighting and the Russians, not the Americans were viewed as the bigger threat.
The Americans had copied the German V-1 and were considering its use as a bombardment weapon against Japan. The US then converted some naval ship as multiple rocket firing platforms.
mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-9859-8
The very large B-29 was in service.
High-ranking members of the military spoke out against the use of this weapon.
colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomicdec.htm
If an American invasion had occurred, atomic bombs were considered part of the plan. The problem was that Commanders in the field could be told little about what these bombs were. They did not contain conventional explosives but radioactive material that would leave behind dangerous fallout, produce radiation sickness and irradiate certain areas, followed by an increased risk of cancer.
The I-400 submarine, though the largest submarine built by any country during the war, had a container mounted on its deck which contained three Aichi M6A Seiran attack floatplanes. It was not the equivalent of a multi-plane aircraft carrier. The Allies did not know it existed until shortly after the end of hostilities.
The Japanese had their own atomic bomb program.
Finally, in 1953, after a series of tests, the US Military Command considered the nuclear weapons then available to be useless and counterproductive in real war conditions. After conventional bombing, land and resources could be taken and held. Not so with the Hydrogen Bomb. But, in order to keep up with the Soviet threat, new designs, more aircraft designs and more sophisticated delivery platforms continued to be developed.
In July 1946, a “radiological monitor” was there to monitor the Bikini tests. Everything had been made radioactive afterwards. He wrote a book about it that was published in 1948, titled No Place to Hide by David Bradley. It was meant for the public.
Ed
The Japanese lacked the resources to continue fighting and the Russians, not the Americans were viewed as the bigger threat.
The Americans had copied the German V-1 and were considering its use as a bombardment weapon against Japan. The US then converted some naval ship as multiple rocket firing platforms.
mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-9859-8
The very large B-29 was in service.
High-ranking members of the military spoke out against the use of this weapon.
colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomicdec.htm
If an American invasion had occurred, atomic bombs were considered part of the plan. The problem was that Commanders in the field could be told little about what these bombs were. They did not contain conventional explosives but radioactive material that would leave behind dangerous fallout, produce radiation sickness and irradiate certain areas, followed by an increased risk of cancer.
The I-400 submarine, though the largest submarine built by any country during the war, had a container mounted on its deck which contained three Aichi M6A Seiran attack floatplanes. It was not the equivalent of a multi-plane aircraft carrier. The Allies did not know it existed until shortly after the end of hostilities.
The Japanese had their own atomic bomb program.
Finally, in 1953, after a series of tests, the US Military Command considered the nuclear weapons then available to be useless and counterproductive in real war conditions. After conventional bombing, land and resources could be taken and held. Not so with the Hydrogen Bomb. But, in order to keep up with the Soviet threat, new designs, more aircraft designs and more sophisticated delivery platforms continued to be developed.
In July 1946, a “radiological monitor” was there to monitor the Bikini tests. Everything had been made radioactive afterwards. He wrote a book about it that was published in 1948, titled No Place to Hide by David Bradley. It was meant for the public.
Ed
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Nope!
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
Christians not the majority in those cities but represented the largest Christian population.
“The largest Roman Catholic cathedral in Japan and Nagasaki itself had the largest Catholic and Christian population in Japan. In an instant, 73,000 people died, over 8000 of whom were Christian. Less than one percent of the Japanese population was Christian, yet they comprised over ten percent of the bomb’s victims…Hiroshima was historically the center of Christian missions to Japan and had the largest number of Christians in Japan – Christians who had steadfastly endured persecution and suppression.”
deeptruths.com/excerpts/trumans_bombing_japan.html
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Brendan
Guest
I agree, but the same was true in Iwo Jima and Okinawa. They knew that they were beated on those islands, but that did not mean the same thing as giving up.
The self inflicted civilian causalities on both island ( suicides) were horrendous.
All adults ( women included) had been conscripted in the prior Feb, and were in the process of being trained to fight Allied landings with bamboo spears.
I am convinced that the bombings actually SAVED countless civilian lives; and even the ‘civilian’ part is iffy, as every single adult, 16 to 60, was technically in the military at that time.
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edwest2
Guest
Russian women were fighter pilots and members of regular army units on the Eastern Front. In Germany, flak helpers were any boy who could assist a flak crew. Members of the Hitler Youth fought fanatically and Allied Forces at first had trouble shooting kids under 16 years of age, but it became necessary. A people’s defense force was formed. The Volkssturm.
lonesentry.com/articles/volkssturm/
I have seen a translated copy of the Japanese civilian combat booklet that gave instructions to civilians about how to best kill the enemy using improvised weapons like bamboo spears. The suicides on Okinawa occurred because Okinawan natives were manipulated by the Japanese, so they were encouraged to kill themselves.
nytimes.com/2005/06/20/world/asia/okinawa-suicides-and-japans-army-burying-the-truth.html?_r=0
Ed
lonesentry.com/articles/volkssturm/
I have seen a translated copy of the Japanese civilian combat booklet that gave instructions to civilians about how to best kill the enemy using improvised weapons like bamboo spears. The suicides on Okinawa occurred because Okinawan natives were manipulated by the Japanese, so they were encouraged to kill themselves.
nytimes.com/2005/06/20/world/asia/okinawa-suicides-and-japans-army-burying-the-truth.html?_r=0
Ed
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Brendan
Guest
FYI, the people of Okinawa ARE Japanese, it is a Japanese Prefecture, part of Japan
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starshiptrooper
Guest
The bombings were justified.
They saved American lives and brought about total victory.
Negotiated surrender would have allowed the Japanese to come back for a sequel.
Bombardment and blockade would have unnecessarily prolonged the war causing the death of more Americans.
Invasion would have had similar consqences.
They saved American lives and brought about total victory.
Negotiated surrender would have allowed the Japanese to come back for a sequel.
Bombardment and blockade would have unnecessarily prolonged the war causing the death of more Americans.
Invasion would have had similar consqences.
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edwest2
Guest
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edwest2
Guest
Please check your history. Okinawa was not Japanese. They had their own language. They had been annexed by Japan.
Ed
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
They are as Japanese as the residents of Hokkaido whose indigenous people were the Ainu. The same goes for so-called “Chinese” Taiwan.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
So, if we did not have the atomic bomb, we would have had to land.
Casualties would have been enormous … 1/2 million Americans.
Millions of Japanese.
Casualties would have been enormous … 1/2 million Americans.
Millions of Japanese.
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