Pius X Society

John_Donlan · May 4, 2005

Does anyone know if the Pius X Society, founded by Archbishop LeFebvre, is now in communion with the Pope and the Magesterium, or is it still in schism?

Fox · May 4, 2005

schism.

atsheeran · May 4, 2005

I’ve not heard about any change in their status. I think it would be pretty big news.

They’re still in schism.

dumspirospero · May 4, 2005

They are still in Schism.

jlw · May 4, 2005

dumspirospero:

They are still in Schism.

I pray for them to be obedient to Benedict, and not Lefebvre.

EddieArent · May 4, 2005

Neither schismatic nor excommunicated;
sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q11_abexcommunicated.htm

Then again, if they are “excommunicated” as some claim to be, then at the same token so is my retired diocesean bishop and many other Florida bishops for assisting in bishop ordinations done by Lutherans without the approval of the Holy Father.

fbsynod.org/Web/OffBishop/InstallERB/Pictures.html

Notice the wording on the website. “Guests” include Bishops X, Y, Z. Hello?!?!?! The ordination took place at a “Catholic” Shrine!

But again, the mentality…Lutherans, Anglicans, Jews, Muslims, Budhists, etc. = good. But SSPX = bad!

jlw · May 4, 2005

Lutherans, Anglicans, Jews, Muslims, Budhists, etc. and SSPX… NOT BAD, brothers and sisters in Christ…and WRONG.

judicame · May 4, 2005

I think though, that they themselves deny that they’re in schism. Cue complicated theological arguements with theologians introduced to bat for each side

It all hinges on Lefebvre consecrating Bishops without awaiting full Roman approval, no?? Because apart from that they’ve just carried on with the same timeless traditional Catholic rite handed down through the centuries.

I think it’s a good deal more subtle than to say that they’re obeying Lefebre instead of Benedict. I don’t think it’s in the Benedict’s power to, say, ban the tridentine rite of mass, or order them to cease. They’re still Catholics practising the Catholic faith.

I feel quite sympathetic toward them. I mean they must look at the chaos going on in the Novus Ordo, the disgusting sex scandels, the homosexual clergy, liturgical abuses, the political manipulations the trendy modernism, the declining attendance, the lack of vocations the ambivalent theology and they must think to themselves, “you know, I think I’ll just go to Holy Mass”. It’s a delicious irony that after all the above innovations, it’s the New Order telling the traditional Catholics that they’re in schism.

I find it all very very strange.

jlw · May 4, 2005

I feel quite sympathetic toward them

So do I, bigtime…AND they did not act in communion with the Holy See.

If you believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Church (who is NEVER wrong), and that the abuses of the Mass following VII are at the feet of liberal MEN disenting from the ACTUAL documents of VII, then the Lefebvrites are in schism with Rome, however we identify with their rejection of modernism run amuck.

Benedictus · May 4, 2005

EddieArent said:
fbsynod.org/Web/OffBishop/InstallERB/Pictures.html

Notice the wording on the website. “Guests” include Bishops X, Y, Z. Hello?!?!?! The ordination took place at a “Catholic” Shrine!

Did the Catholic bishop actually consecrate the Lutheran bishop? There’s nothing on that website that indicates that he did. There’s a world of difference between observing the installation of a Lutheran “bishop” and actually consecrating a man to the episcopate against the Holy Father’s wishes.

atsheeran · May 4, 2005

EddieArent:

Neither schismatic nor excommunicated;
sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q11_abexcommunicated.htm

Then again, if they are “excommunicated” as some claim to be, then at the same token so is my retired diocesean bishop and many other Florida bishops for assisting in bishop ordinations done by Lutherans without the approval of the Holy Father.

fbsynod.org/Web/OffBishop/InstallERB/Pictures.html

Notice the wording on the website. “Guests” include Bishops X, Y, Z. Hello?!?!?! The ordination took place at a “Catholic” Shrine!

But again, the mentality…Lutherans, Anglicans, Jews, Muslims, Budhists, etc. = good. But SSPX = bad!

I’m not going to take the word of that SSPX website above that of Pope John Paul II. From his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei:

In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta,** have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4)**

and further

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement.** Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law**.(8)

atsheeran · May 4, 2005

Here’s a lie from the SSPX link:

In Ecclesia Dei Afflicta, the Pope repeated Cardinal Gantin’s accusation of schismatic mentality and threatened generalized excommunications

The Pope didn’t “threaten” excommunications, he declared them!

judicame · May 4, 2005

At the end of the day, who’s responsible for this terrible mess?

Hey, I feel a poll coming on.

Catholic29 · May 4, 2005

John Donlan:

Does anyone know if the Pius X Society, founded by Archbishop LeFebvre, is now in communion with the Pope and the Magesterium, or is it still in schism?

Despite what a few claim, the vast consensus, and the official word from Rome is that they are still in schism. But I continue to pray they will one day, hopefully very soon, that they will reconcile with the Church.

I’m not going to take the word of that SSPX website above that of Pope John Paul II. From his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei:

Amen, I could not of said it any better, and read it here straight from the Vatican’s official website:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html

And after reading the very concise document at the above link, vote here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=43231&page=2

God Bless

EddieArent · May 4, 2005

So, tell me…as I asked, when did the Florida bishops have permission to allow this follower of Luther to be ordained as a bishop in a Catholic facility? There are many flaws to what came out from Rome and they can be viewed on the Society’s website.

Where is the bishop in Montana’s obeidiance to Rome as he is naming a parish after Pope John Paul II even though Canon Law doesn’t allow it?

Any chance on seeing some Cardinals excommunicated after a number of them broke their vows and gave way too much details about the conclave? A few stories even reported the number of votes Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict, the Pope the Society prays for at all times - including the Canon) received.

EddieArent · May 4, 2005

Benedictus:

Did the Catholic bishop actually consecrate the Lutheran bishop? There’s nothing on that website that indicates that he did. There’s a world of difference between observing the installation of a Lutheran “bishop” and actually consecrating a man to the episcopate against the Holy Father’s wishes.

They provided the facilities and attended it! One of the bishop’s even sent a letter welcoming them! Far from meerly observing.

As I stated, had there been a Marcel in the crowd…

pnewton · May 4, 2005

Absolutely in schism, until the Holy Father say otherwise. The document stating this was posted to the Ask an Aplologist forum. Search there for sspx.

Sean_O_L · May 5, 2005

EddyArent wrote:

So, tell me…as I asked, when did the Florida bishops have permission to allow this follower of Luther to be ordained as a bishop in a Catholic facility? There are many flaws to what came out from Rome and they can be viewed on the Society’s website.

Where is the bishop in Montana’s obeidiance to Rome as he is naming a parish after Pope John Paul II even though Canon Law doesn’t allow it?

Instead of venting on an Internet Forum, why do you not write to Rome for an explanation.

They WILL reply - but, will you accept the reply?

Steve_Green · May 10, 2005

I am not a “member” of the Pius X Society. But you know, what goes around comes around. The Pius X Society will have the last laugh when the new order mass crumbles into moderist oblivion.

pnewton · May 10, 2005

Steve Green:

I am not a “member” of the Pius X Society. But you know, what goes around comes around. The Pius X Society will have the last laugh when the new order mass crumbles into moderist oblivion.

What an odd thing to rejoice in, as if the Mass will ever crumble.

Pius X Society

John_Donlan

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Fox

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atsheeran

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dumspirospero

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jlw

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EddieArent

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jlw

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judicame

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jlw

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Benedictus

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atsheeran

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atsheeran

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judicame

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Catholic29

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EddieArent

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EddieArent

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pnewton

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Sean_O_L

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Steve_Green

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pnewton

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